County Championship Rules

Discussion about all aspects of the ECF County Championships.
Alex Holowczak
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Re: County Championship Rules

Post by Alex Holowczak » Thu Feb 27, 2014 1:04 pm

Neil Graham wrote:In the past there was the facility for printing out certificates; it would be a nice gesture if the players from the runners-up in each section(or indeed all participants) could be presented with one of these to state they played in a national final. The cost would be negligible.
Would people want them? I don't want to print off 104 certificates, and then spend half an hour picking up the 70 that have been left behind...

Kevin Williamson
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Re: County Championship Rules

Post by Kevin Williamson » Thu Feb 27, 2014 1:22 pm

David Sedgwick wrote:
Kevin Williamson wrote:
David Sedgwick wrote: You think Bedfordshire should be allowed to behave like that without consequence. Well, you're entitled to your opinion.
David, that isn’t my opinion at all.
I apologise for misrepresenting you.
David, thanks.

I think what all the contributors to the discussion agree on is that we all want to see a thriving, healthy Counties Championship. It’s just that one size doesn’t necessarily fit all.

Who’d want to be a controller :)

Neil Graham
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Re: County Championship Rules

Post by Neil Graham » Thu Feb 27, 2014 1:44 pm

Alex Holowczak wrote:
Neil Graham wrote:The ECF inform me that the draw was done correctly under Schedule D - however they have already shown they are incapable of following their own rules
The point of the draw being changed demonstrates that we are capable of following our rules. Regrettably, being human and all, we made a mistake at the time. When that mistake was brought to our attention, we fixed it.

I informed you that your other objection was not a constraint of the draw, and so the draws were legal from that point of view. If you want a philosophical debate about whether it should be legal, then fine - but you do yourself no credit to complain that the draws are either wrong or "not satisfactory".

On the contrary, I have complained that the draw was wrong and as in the first para it has had to be amended. As to the other point, it has been pointed out that the draw was in accordance with the rules. I point out that in the past the draws were done differently to achieve the objective of keeping Union representatives apart. Why this is considered a "philosophical" matter is beyond me. I can see no reason why pointing this out on the forum does me "no credit." I have made it clear why I am not happy with this; you have made it clear that the draw will not be altered.

When I next hold a Union Representatives meeting (Julyish, probably soon after the Finals Day), I will add this to the list of things to discuss.

Neil Graham
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Re: County Championship Rules

Post by Neil Graham » Thu Feb 27, 2014 1:53 pm

Alex Holowczak wrote:
Neil Graham wrote:In the past there was the facility for printing out certificates; it would be a nice gesture if the players from the runners-up in each section(or indeed all participants) could be presented with one of these to state they played in a national final. The cost would be negligible.
Would people want them? I don't want to print off 104 certificates, and then spend half an hour picking up the 70 that have been left behind...
There was a complaint in the past that participants came away with nothing - this has been rectified by the handing out of individual trophies to the winning team. I believe in the past the team captains were handed trophies/certificates rather than wholesale shaking of hands by the ECF President or whoever. May I suggest that there is adequate time before the finals to check with the various match captains whether this is a good idea? If certificates are just left behind, yes a waste of time - on the other hand the fact that the ECF has produced a memento for competitors may show the Federation in a good light. I note that already one captain has agreed.

David Sedgwick
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Re: County Championship Rules

Post by David Sedgwick » Thu Feb 27, 2014 2:28 pm

Alex Holowczak wrote:
Neil Graham wrote:In the past there was the facility for printing out certificates; it would be a nice gesture if the players from the runners-up in each section(or indeed all participants) could be presented with one of these to state they played in a national final. The cost would be negligible.
Would people want them? I don't want to print off 104 certificates, and then spend half an hour picking up the 70 that have been left behind...
When individual trophies were discontinued, both in the Counties Championships in the National Club Championships, it was stated that teams who so wished could obtain certificates instead on request to the Office after the event. To the best of my knowledge no-one ever succeeded in getting any and everyone soon gave up trying.

If certificates can now be made available on the day, then that's terrific. Why not ask teams when they register whether or not they would like them?

Sean Hewitt
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Re: County Championship Rules

Post by Sean Hewitt » Thu Feb 27, 2014 3:12 pm

Alex Holowczak wrote:I informed you that your other objection was not a constraint of the draw, and so the draws were legal from that point of view. If you want a philosophical debate about whether it should be legal, then fine - but you do yourself no credit to complain that the draws are either wrong or "not satisfactory".

When I next hold a Union Representatives meeting (Julyish, probably soon after the Finals Day), I will add this to the list of things to discuss.
The draw may well be legal (I've not checked, but I have no reason to doubt it) but that does not mean that it is sensible or satisfactory. In my opinion, it is neither.

I seem to recall that this issue has been raised before (before Alex's time) and the response was that teams from the same union were 'kept apart where possible'. I think it is the change to this custom and practice which is being objected to.

Neil Graham
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Re: County Championship Rules

Post by Neil Graham » Thu Feb 27, 2014 5:17 pm

Sean Hewitt wrote:
Alex Holowczak wrote:I informed you that your other objection was not a constraint of the draw, and so the draws were legal from that point of view. If you want a philosophical debate about whether it should be legal, then fine - but you do yourself no credit to complain that the draws are either wrong or "not satisfactory".

When I next hold a Union Representatives meeting (Julyish, probably soon after the Finals Day), I will add this to the list of things to discuss.
The draw may well be legal (I've not checked, but I have no reason to doubt it) but that does not mean that it is sensible or satisfactory. In my opinion, it is neither.

I seem to recall that this issue has been raised before (before Alex's time) and the response was that teams from the same union were 'kept apart where possible'. I think it is the change to this custom and practice which is being objected to.
Thank you Sean for succinctly stating in three lines what I have been trying in three pages to put across!

Mick Norris
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Re: County Championship Rules

Post by Mick Norris » Sat Mar 01, 2014 6:51 pm

Mick Norris wrote:I see Yorks beat Lancs in the NCCU Open match
http://yorkshirechess.org/nccu-2013-14- ... -vs-lancs/

From the photo, I see the innovation of using chairs has been introduced :) as opposed to stools attached to dining tables
I see that some of the U160 players were not so lucky
http://yorkshirechess.org/nccu-2013-14- ... -vs-lancs/
from which
And the Holy Family School had been spruced up which meant we didn’t have chairs but little fixed plastic stools (designed for 7 year olds) to sit on (8 of us at least) and limited central heating
Any postings on here represent my personal views and should not be taken as representative of the Manchester Chess Federation www.manchesterchess.co.uk

MartinCarpenter
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Re: County Championship Rules

Post by MartinCarpenter » Mon Mar 03, 2014 10:24 am

Sigh.

Talking of slightly 'odd' draws, I just looked at the U180 one.
Q1: MCCU 1 v SCCU 3; Q2: NCCU 1 v SCCU 2; Q3: SCCU 1 v NCCU 2
S1: WECU 1 v Q1 winner; S2: Q2 winner v Q3 winner

Tough with three quarter finals, 3 from the SCCU and two from the NCCU of course, but this does look almost designed to produce a potential repeat clash in S2. I'd have thought that putting the MCCU QF as Q2 or Q3 instead of Q1 would be harmless/logical.

Surely SCCU1 deserve the bye to the semis too? Very much the toughest qualifying event! Maybe there's some rules about that though.

Looking at the distinct lack of entries does make me wonder if we couldn't go back to U185 - certainly most of the counties in that competition could field U185 (or even U190 - the regrading seems to have pushed the old U175 to somewhere between the two) teams at least as easily as U180 ones.
(It'd actually be easier for Yorkshire.).

Anyhow, a home draw for Yorkshire after seemingly beating Lancs. That was at Bradford so thankfully no plastic stools, but they might just have had the cellar.

David Sedgwick
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Re: County Championship Rules

Post by David Sedgwick » Mon Mar 03, 2014 1:04 pm

MartinCarpenter wrote:Talking of slightly 'odd' draws, I just looked at the U180 one.
Q1: MCCU 1 v SCCU 3; Q2: NCCU 1 v SCCU 2; Q3: SCCU 1 v NCCU 2
S1: WECU 1 v Q1 winner; S2: Q2 winner v Q3 winner

Tough with three quarter finals, 3 from the SCCU and two from the NCCU of course, but this does look almost designed to produce a potential repeat clash in S2. I'd have thought that putting the MCCU QF as Q2 or Q3 instead of Q1 would be harmless/logical.

Surely SCCU1 deserve the bye to the semis too? Very much the toughest qualifying event! Maybe there's some rules about that though.
The three SCCU qualifiers will be Essex, Kent and Surrey, with only the order yet to be determined. Essex have finished their programme and Kent and Surrey play this coming Saturday (8th March).

Things have not turned out too badly for the latter two teams. The winner of the match will be the SCCU Champions and the loser will finish third, with the potentially more attractive National Stage draw.

Only a drawn match - entirely possible, of course - will mess up this cosy situation. In that case Essex will be Champions, with Surrey second and Kent third.

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IM Jack Rudd
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Re: County Championship Rules

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Sat Mar 08, 2014 11:31 pm

The dust has settled on WECU's qualifying stage: Somerset's 8½-6½ victory over Hampshire today means that in the Minor counties, Somerset are W1 and Hampshire are W2. This win also meant that Somerset retained the WECU championship.


David Sedgwick
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Re: County Championship Rules

Post by David Sedgwick » Sun Mar 09, 2014 12:56 pm

David Sedgwick wrote:The three SCCU qualifiers will be Essex, Kent and Surrey, with only the order yet to be determined. Essex have finished their programme and Kent and Surrey play this coming Saturday (8th March).

Things have not turned out too badly for the latter two teams. The winner of the match will be the SCCU Champions and the loser will finish third, with the potentially more attractive National Stage draw.

Only a drawn match - entirely possible, of course - will mess up this cosy situation. In that case Essex will be Champions, with Surrey second and Kent third.
Surrey defeated Kent 9½ - 6½ and have thus become the SCCU U180 Champions.

The victory was achieved without me. Avid readers of this Forum will know that I was otherwise occupied with some other "shysters"

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