County Championship Rules

Discussion about all aspects of the ECF County Championships.
David Sedgwick
Posts: 2929
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2007 5:56 pm
Location: Croydon

Re: County Championship Rules

Post by David Sedgwick » Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:57 am

Andrew Zigmond wrote:
David Sedgwick wrote:Thank you, Andrew and Neil. All is now clear to me.

Andrew, are the byes definite, or will you be inviting additional nominations?
The deadline for requesting nominations has passed. If a Union fails to fulfil the number of requested nominations the quarter final draw may be amended as per Rule D2.4.
With respect, I think you've misunderstood my question.

The first sentence of Rule D.2.1 reads:

"If there are less than 8 nominations in total for any championship, the controller may invite extra entries from eligible teams."

I was asking whether you had any intention of invoking this rule.

Some years ago there was considerable confusion about this. A few teams were initially told that they had byes, but later informed that additional nominations had been accepted and that they had to play Quarter Finals after all. Not surprisingly, they protested that they'd already told their players that they were not needed on that day.

Since that time I've always sought clarity at outset.

Thank you in advance.

Neil Graham
Posts: 1073
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:36 pm

Re: County Championship Rules

Post by Neil Graham » Wed Feb 19, 2014 10:20 am

AFAIK the MCCU nominations are as follows:-

Open M1 = Staffordshire
Minor M1/M2 tbc either Leicestershire or Nottinghamshire; M3 = Manchester
U180 M1 = Warwickshire
U160 M1 = Leicestershire; M2 tbc either Manchester or Nottinghamshire
U140 M1 = Nottinghamshire; M2 = Staffordshire
U120 M1 = Staffordshire; M2 = Nottinghamshire; M3 = Warwickshire
U100 M1 = Warwickshire; M2 = Nottinghamshire

Andrew Zigmond
Posts: 1438
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2011 9:23 pm
Location: Harrogate

Re: County Championship Rules

Post by Andrew Zigmond » Wed Feb 19, 2014 10:27 pm

Neil Graham wrote:AFAIK the MCCU nominations are as follows:-

Open M1 = Staffordshire
Minor M1/M2 tbc either Leicestershire or Nottinghamshire; M3 = Manchester
U180 M1 = Warwickshire
U160 M1 = Leicestershire; M2 tbc either Manchester or Nottinghamshire
U140 M1 = Nottinghamshire; M2 = Staffordshire
U120 M1 = Staffordshire; M2 = Nottinghamshire; M3 = Warwickshire
U100 M1 = Warwickshire; M2 = Nottinghamshire
Firstly the full draw can be found here http://www.englishchess.org.uk//

Obviously Unions are not obliged to keep their nominations confidential and potential pairings can be inferred as the Unions complete their internal competitions; however nothing is official until announced by Alex or myself.
Controller - Yorkshire League
Chairman - Harrogate Chess Club
All views expressed entirely my own

Neil Graham
Posts: 1073
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:36 pm

Re: County Championship Rules

Post by Neil Graham » Wed Feb 19, 2014 11:52 pm

David Sedgwick wrote:Thank you, Andrew and Neil. All is now clear to me.

Andrew, are the byes definite, or will you be inviting additional nominations?

Edit: We don't seem to have the Semi Final Draw in the Minor Counties Championship and in the U160 Division.
Having looked at the pairings in the Under 160 the semi-finals ought to be:-

Q1 v Q2; Q3 v Q4

In the Minor I'm not sure but my best guess is Q1 v Q4; Q2 v Q3.

One hopes that the semi-final pairings have been decided in these two competitions and can be put on the web.

Andrew Zigmond
Posts: 1438
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2011 9:23 pm
Location: Harrogate

Re: County Championship Rules

Post by Andrew Zigmond » Thu Feb 20, 2014 12:08 am

Neil Graham wrote:
David Sedgwick wrote:Thank you, Andrew and Neil. All is now clear to me.

Andrew, are the byes definite, or will you be inviting additional nominations?

Edit: We don't seem to have the Semi Final Draw in the Minor Counties Championship and in the U160 Division.
Having looked at the pairings in the Under 160 the semi-finals ought to be:-

Q1 v Q2; Q3 v Q4

In the Minor I'm not sure but my best guess is Q1 v Q4; Q2 v Q3.

One hopes that the semi-final pairings have been decided in these two competitions and can be put on the web.
In both cases it's;

S1:Q1 vs Q2
S2:Q3 vs Q4

Not specifying this was my oversight for which I apologise. The Unions have been advised, as has the ECF webmaster.
Controller - Yorkshire League
Chairman - Harrogate Chess Club
All views expressed entirely my own

Neil Graham
Posts: 1073
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:36 pm

Re: County Championship Rules

Post by Neil Graham » Thu Feb 20, 2014 12:32 am

Andrew Zigmond wrote:
Neil Graham wrote:
David Sedgwick wrote:Thank you, Andrew and Neil. All is now clear to me.

Andrew, are the byes definite, or will you be inviting additional nominations?

Edit: We don't seem to have the Semi Final Draw in the Minor Counties Championship and in the U160 Division.
Having looked at the pairings in the Under 160 the semi-finals ought to be:-

Q1 v Q2; Q3 v Q4

In the Minor I'm not sure but my best guess is Q1 v Q4; Q2 v Q3.

One hopes that the semi-final pairings have been decided in these two competitions and can be put on the web.
In both cases it's;

S1:Q1 vs Q2
S2:Q3 vs Q4

Not specifying this was my oversight for which I apologise. The Unions have been advised, as has the ECF webmaster.
In the Minor M1 and M2 are therefore in the same side of the draw.

My understanding of the rules is that the Preliminary Round should have involved M3 ie Rule D2.2 Should there be more than eight nominations, a preliminary round shall be played before the quarter final. Teams placed in the preliminary round shall, where possible, be the third nominees of Unions.. Is there any reason that this didn't take place so that a more equitable draw was achieved? IMHO the present draw is not satisfactory for the Midland's first two nominees.

I note that S3 has correctly been placed in the preliminary round of the Under 160 event.

Mick Norris
Posts: 6691
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:12 am
Location: Bolton, Greater Manchester
Contact:

Re: County Championship Rules

Post by Mick Norris » Wed Feb 26, 2014 3:08 pm

I see Yorks beat Lancs in the NCCU Open match
http://yorkshirechess.org/nccu-2013-14- ... -vs-lancs/

From the photo, I see the innovation of using chairs has been introduced :) as opposed to stools attached to dining tables
Any postings on here represent my personal views and should not be taken as representative of the Manchester Chess Federation www.manchesterchess.co.uk

MartinCarpenter
Posts: 2382
Joined: Tue May 24, 2011 10:58 am

Re: County Championship Rules

Post by MartinCarpenter » Wed Feb 26, 2014 4:18 pm

A fine looking result, yes. Maybe not a surprise if Heywood keep their 'best' equipment for the county matches rather than the Manchester league ;)

On a secondary note, I think the fact that Yorkshire are now clean through to the semi's after one twelve board match is a rather eloquent judgement on the health of the open competition :( At least the semi's/finals should be properly serious affairs :)

Roger de Coverly
Posts: 16656
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:51 pm

Re: County Championship Rules

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed Feb 26, 2014 4:26 pm

MartinCarpenter wrote: On a secondary note, I think the fact that Yorkshire are now clean through to the semi's after one twelve board match is a rather eloquent judgement on the health of the open competition
The threats of fines etc. have done their job in discouraging entries. It's just the SCCU 3, the NCCU 2 and the MCCU 1, is it not? MCCU declined to put up more than one qualifier, pre-seeded from the start of the season, with WECU and EACU not bothering.

Mick Norris
Posts: 6691
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:12 am
Location: Bolton, Greater Manchester
Contact:

Re: County Championship Rules

Post by Mick Norris » Wed Feb 26, 2014 4:29 pm

MartinCarpenter wrote:A fine looking result, yes. Maybe not a surprise if Heywood keep their 'best' equipment for the county matches rather than the Manchester league ;)
Martin

I was referring to county matches in previous years

Heywood don't play in a school for Manchester League matches, they play in a Unionist club :roll:
Any postings on here represent my personal views and should not be taken as representative of the Manchester Chess Federation www.manchesterchess.co.uk

MartinCarpenter
Posts: 2382
Joined: Tue May 24, 2011 10:58 am

Re: County Championship Rules

Post by MartinCarpenter » Wed Feb 26, 2014 6:04 pm

Apologies to them I guess. I'd missed the school bit. I do seem to remember that I've managed to play some county matches in something that has at least been their Manchester league venue at some point.

Quite possible that they they varied it because of holding two matches at once - Yorkshire won the concurent U160 match too :)

Neil Graham
Posts: 1073
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:36 pm

Re: County Championship Rules

Post by Neil Graham » Wed Feb 26, 2014 8:22 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
MartinCarpenter wrote: On a secondary note, I think the fact that Yorkshire are now clean through to the semi's after one twelve board match is a rather eloquent judgement on the health of the open competition
The threats of fines etc. have done their job in discouraging entries. It's just the SCCU 3, the NCCU 2 and the MCCU 1, is it not? MCCU declined to put up more than one qualifier, pre-seeded from the start of the season, with WECU and EACU not bothering.
The MCCU had eight counties playing in its qualifying event. Only one, Staffordshire, wished to take part in the Counties Championship the remainder electing to play in the Minor Counties - a fact that RdC conveniently seems to have forgotten. The Unions can organise or nominate as they think fit into the various events. The threat of fines or etc have nothing to do with whether a county plays or doesn't. The reason that counties don't compete is the usual one I allude to regularly in this forum - a dearth of players willing to take responsibility for organisation at every level from club, through county, Union and up to national level.

User avatar
IM Jack Rudd
Posts: 3605
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 1:13 am
Location: Bideford

Re: County Championship Rules

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Wed Feb 26, 2014 8:49 pm

Similarly, WECU had five teams playing in its qualifying event, and three opted for the Minor Counties and two not to enter the Open or Minor. This is the same number as last year, except that last year one of the three opted for the Open instead of the Minor.

Roger de Coverly
Posts: 16656
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:51 pm

Re: County Championship Rules

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu Feb 27, 2014 12:50 am

Neil Graham wrote:The threat of fines or etc have nothing to do with whether a county plays or doesn't. The reason that counties don't compete is the usual one I allude to regularly in this forum - a dearth of players willing to take responsibility for organisation at every level from club, through county, Union and up to national level.
That's not actually the case though. County matches at Union level still have captains and squads. If as a match captain, you are uncertain about the level of support for a long distance match in April or May and you or your Treasurer are threatened with financial consequences if you pull out when you cannot raise a team, isn't that a disincentive to even try?

The Open is somewhat lopsided. There will be three SCCU counties who will qualify from the usual intense and difficult to predict dogfight plus Yorks, Lancs and Staffs with automatic qualification.

Kevin Williamson
Posts: 113
Joined: Sun Sep 27, 2009 6:24 pm

Re: County Championship Rules

Post by Kevin Williamson » Thu Feb 27, 2014 7:01 am

Roger de Coverly wrote:That's not actually the case though. County matches at Union level still have captains and squads. If as a match captain, you are uncertain about the level of support for a long distance match in April or May and you or your Treasurer are threatened with financial consequences if you pull out when you cannot raise a team, isn't that a disincentive to even try?
Absolutely.

When I made that point on Page 1 of this thread I was told that was the intention of the new rule. So, after consultation within the county, Beds decided not to enter (the u180) this year. It’s quite possible that we would have raised a team but we decided not to take the risk.

I’m not sure what the ECF plan to do with any money raised from the fines, but should any be collected could I ask that they consider the reintroduction of individual trophies for members of the winning teams on Finals Day?

Post Reply