Victory for the Dinosaurs

Discussion about all aspects of the ECF County Championships.
Jon Underwood
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Location: Devon

Re: Victory for the Dinosaurs

Post by Jon Underwood » Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:21 am

Nick Grey wrote:
Sun Apr 08, 2018 11:09 pm
One of the most disturbing points of the debate is the reason most counties do not enter the Open is because they cannot field a competitive team.

I would say that 12 out of 16 teams in division 1 of the 4NCL will not win. It can be like that in some league competitions.

Every year 100s of football teams enter the FA Cup. At lower tier level 1000s of teams enter their County Association competitions. This is sport and the underdog has a chance. Slim but so much fun and enjoyment when you win. Local heroes for decades.

We are too hung up on grading. And if we put our minds to it we could come up with plate competitions. Just try not to have some artificial constructs over content of teams.
I had to smile at the thought we would be local heroes if we pulled off a shock win against Middlesex, urged on by thousands of (silently) baying fans. The frequency which would expect to do so is somewhat less than that at which the Cornish beat us - every 20 years or so. So maybe their chances of doing it three times in a row are once every few centuries. (Bloody hope I'm not Devon captain when it happens).

If Devon make it through to the semi-finals of the minor counties some of our players will face a 350 mile round trip. Try persuading 16 unpaid people to do that with the additional knowledge that they are virtually certain to lose.

The minor counties as it stands is not far off a plate competition. We've just taken the result of the first round as read that's all.

I could imagine a sort of David vs Goliath charity shield played between the winner of the minor and the open section, perhaps with an U190 average restriction.

Jon Underwood
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Location: Devon

Re: Victory for the Dinosaurs

Post by Jon Underwood » Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:30 am

Actually I think an additional competition along the lines of the minor counties would have been a good idea, something like an Open for the big counties, Major (ave < 185?) and Minor (ave < 170?) would be worth thinking about. The latter could have second teams in it I suppose. I'd have abolished the U180.

Mick Norris
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Re: Victory for the Dinosaurs

Post by Mick Norris » Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:09 am

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:04 am
Andrew Zigmond wrote:
Sun Apr 08, 2018 11:52 pm
However surely allowing counties to shop around for hired guns makes a mockery of having a COUNTIES championship and doesn't exactly level up the playing field.
Yorkshire have vastly more players than Bucks. On the one occasion we met, arguably Yorks employed a very dubious board order.

https://www.sccu-chess.com/archive/9900/matchbcf.htm
Very wide range of counties competing, which shows what the County Championships used to be like; been a change over the last 18 years
Any postings on here represent my personal views and should not be taken as representative of the Manchester Chess Federation www.manchesterchess.co.uk

Andrew Zigmond
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Location: Harrogate

Re: Victory for the Dinosaurs

Post by Andrew Zigmond » Mon Apr 09, 2018 3:28 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:04 am
Andrew Zigmond wrote:
Sun Apr 08, 2018 11:52 pm
However surely allowing counties to shop around for hired guns makes a mockery of having a COUNTIES championship and doesn't exactly level up the playing field.
Yorkshire have vastly more players than Bucks. On the one occasion we met, arguably Yorks employed a very dubious board order.

https://www.sccu-chess.com/archive/9900/matchbcf.htm
Yorks would also have more ability to rope in players outside the traditional county affiliation, which was my point. As for the board order either it was legal under the rules of the time or Bucks simply failed to query it. Either way there seems little point in raising it at eighteen years distance.

What was interesting was to see some stars of the future in the graded sections.
Controller - Yorkshire League
Chairman - Harrogate Chess Club
All views expressed entirely my own

NickFaulks
Posts: 4413
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:28 pm

Re: Victory for the Dinosaurs

Post by NickFaulks » Sun May 20, 2018 11:24 pm

The dinosaurs may have won the battle, but they have lost the war. I have played in two quarter-finals ( having travelled great distances ) to play four hour games and am now informed that our semi-final will be on the same basis.

Why this is necessary for a game to which the players have devoted an entire day has not been explained. As far as I'm concerned, the ECF view that the County Championship is just a lowlife 4NCL is confirmed as correct.
Last edited by NickFaulks on Sun May 20, 2018 11:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Neil Graham
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Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:36 pm

Re: Victory for the Dinosaurs

Post by Neil Graham » Sun May 20, 2018 11:34 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 11:24 pm
The dinosaurs may have won the battle, but they have lost the war. I have played in two quarter-finals ( having travelled great distances ) to play four hour games and am now informed that our semi-final will be on the same basis.

Why this is necessary for a game to which the players have devoted an entire day has not been explained. As far as I'm concerned,the ECF view that the County Championship is just a lowlife 4NCL is confirmed as correct.
This is nothing to do with the ECF - the specified time limit is five hours

E3.1. The time limit shall be 40 moves in 110 minutes, plus a 25-minute quickplay finish, plus a 10-
second increment per move from move 1.
E3.2. Where suitable digital clocks are not available for an entire match to be played with this time
limit, then the time limit shall be 40 moves in 2 hours, plus a 30-minute quickplay finish.
E3.3. The time limit of any match may be varied by agreement between the captains with the
permission of the Controller.


the two captains will have agreed to a different time limit under E3.3

NickFaulks
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Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:28 pm

Re: Victory for the Dinosaurs

Post by NickFaulks » Sun May 20, 2018 11:46 pm

Neil Graham wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 11:34 pm
This is nothing to do with the ECF - the specified time limit is five hours

E3.1. The time limit shall be 40 moves in 110 minutes, plus a 25-minute quickplay finish, plus a 10-
second increment per move from move 1.
E3.2. Where suitable digital clocks are not available for an entire match to be played with this time
limit, then the time limit shall be 40 moves in 2 hours, plus a 30-minute quickplay finish.
E3.3. The time limit of any match may be varied by agreement between the captains with the
permission of the Controller.


the two captains will have agreed to a different time limit under E3.3
I do not disagree with any of that. It is the counties themselves who are choosing to degrade their own competition.

benedgell
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Re: Victory for the Dinosaurs

Post by benedgell » Mon May 21, 2018 9:47 am

I prefer 4hr sessions.

I think when your comments include

"the ECF view the county Championship as just a low life 4ncl...." and "counties are choosing to degrade their own competition."

then maybe you're just a little too passionate about an hour's extra time.

In the SW we play 4hr sessions, no complaints. The same time limit as in congresses.

At the end of the day, if you really feel that strongly, don't play county chess. If enough people follow your lead then your captain will be obliged to press for 5hr time limits in order for players to play.

NickFaulks
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Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:28 pm

Re: Victory for the Dinosaurs

Post by NickFaulks » Mon May 21, 2018 10:03 am

benedgell wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 9:47 am
At the end of the day, if you really feel that strongly, don't play county chess. If enough people follow your lead then your captain will be obliged to press for 5hr time limits in order for players to play.
I don't disagree with any of that either.

Brian Towers
Posts: 1122
Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2014 7:23 pm

Re: Victory for the Dinosaurs

Post by Brian Towers » Mon May 21, 2018 10:43 am

NickFaulks wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 10:03 am
benedgell wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 9:47 am
At the end of the day, if you really feel that strongly, don't play county chess. If enough people follow your lead then your captain will be obliged to press for 5hr time limits in order for players to play.
I don't disagree with any of that either.
Nick, face it. It's not resting and it's not stunned.
Ah, but I was so much older then. I'm younger than that now.

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