The English Language

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Ian Thompson
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Re: The English Language

Post by Ian Thompson » Tue Oct 10, 2017 12:30 am

soheil_hooshdaran wrote:What does 'in this' mean in:
To pass from the spontaneous desiccation, which leaves only the bones, to the special form of desication which transforms the corpse into a mummy, it is enough for the survivors to have developed a desire to consign to the final grave a body as little changed as possible. In this the Egyptian funeral ritual agrees essentially with the beliefs and practices of the Indonesians: for seventy days, the embalmer fights the corruption which tries to invade the corpse; it is only at the end of this period that the body, having become imperishable, is taken to the grave, that the soul departs for the fields of Ialu and that the mourning of the survivors comes to an end.
It could also be written "In this way ...". In other words, the first sentence shows that Egyptian funeral rites are similar to Indonesian ones.

soheil_hooshdaran
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Re: The English Language

Post by soheil_hooshdaran » Tue Oct 10, 2017 1:30 am

similar from this point of view?

John McKenna
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Re: The English Language

Post by John McKenna » Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:41 am

Similar in this respect - the mummification of the body.

Similar from this point of view - that it is the appropriate way to ensure the soul departs the body in the right way and that the mourners can then cease to mourn.
To find a for(u)m that accommodates the mess, that is the task of the artist now. (Samuel Beckett)

soheil_hooshdaran
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Re: The English Language

Post by soheil_hooshdaran » Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:15 pm

In
Thus, endocannibalism, whatever its direct causes might be, takes its place among the various practices observed in order to lay bare the bones in the intermediary period between death and the last funeral rites.
What does 'take its place' mean?

MartinCarpenter
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Re: The English Language

Post by MartinCarpenter » Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:03 pm

'takes it place among' is all one chunk of meaning - something becomes a member of a collection of somethings.

soheil_hooshdaran
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Re: The English Language

Post by soheil_hooshdaran » Thu Oct 12, 2017 3:27 pm

He retains all his rights over his wife and guards them jealously.

Who is 'them'?

Roger de Coverly
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Re: The English Language

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu Oct 12, 2017 4:39 pm

soheil_hooshdaran wrote: Who is 'them'?
wife and guards

or possibly

his rights

There's a double meaning.

On balance, depending on context, it's probably his rights, given that "guard his rights" is a common expression.

Andy Stoker
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Re: The English Language

Post by Andy Stoker » Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:53 pm

Definitely "his rights" - really that phrase can mean only one thing - there is only one object - wife - it cannot mean "wife and guards" - as though the latter were a troupe of bodyguards ... sentence would make no sense

soheil_hooshdaran
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Re: The English Language

Post by soheil_hooshdaran » Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:25 pm

The custom of not proclaiming the successor to a chief until the final ceremony, a custom which we had already encountered in Timor, is reported from several peoples belonging to different ethnic groups.

What does 'several peoples' mean?

John McKenna
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Re: The English Language

Post by John McKenna » Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:34 pm

several peoples = various different tribes and nations

W. Churchill wrote - A History of the English Speaking Peoples - a bit old hat now.
To find a for(u)m that accommodates the mess, that is the task of the artist now. (Samuel Beckett)

soheil_hooshdaran
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Re: The English Language

Post by soheil_hooshdaran » Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:57 am

What does 'fully consummated' mean?
it is the ideas relative to the passage of time itself which determine the end of the observances. The death will not be fully consummated, the soul will not leave the earth, the mourning of the living will not be ended till a certain period of time, considered complete, has elapsed;

soheil_hooshdaran
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Re: The English Language

Post by soheil_hooshdaran » Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:05 am

What does 'at once' mean in:
among certain Indian tribes of South America a rope is tied to the corpse, which is buried at once, and its extremity remains visible on the surface of the tomb;

MartinCarpenter
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Re: The English Language

Post by MartinCarpenter » Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:52 am

at once == immediately, without delay etc.

Fully Consummated ~= complete, but more complicated than that. Some spritual/religious overtones which won't be at all easy to translate.

John McKenna
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Re: The English Language

Post by John McKenna » Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:54 pm

Shakespeare has Hamlet say, of death, "... a consummation devoutly to be wished."

Giovanni Florio (1553-1625) - the language tutor at the court of King James I - wrote, "If it (death) be a consummation of one's being (life), it is also an amendment and an entrance into a long and quiet night. We find nothing so sweet in life as a quiet and gentle sleep, and without dreams."

As well as meaning a final 'completion' the word 'consummation' can also mean a final destruction, as in the following well-known translation from Hindu scripture - "Now I am become Death, the destroyer (consumer) of worlds."

Howard Staunton was a 'consummate' Shakesperian scholar of his time. He turned down a chess match with, the much younger, Paul Morphy as he was consumed in consummating an annotated edition of Shakespeare's plays.

Also note that, in what I've consummately already written the noun 'consummation' - that comes from a verb (to consume) - also appears as a verb (to consummate), an adjective (consummate) and an adverb (consummately).
To find a for(u)m that accommodates the mess, that is the task of the artist now. (Samuel Beckett)

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Carl Hibbard
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Re: The English Language

Post by Carl Hibbard » Fri Oct 13, 2017 5:09 pm

A nice happy topic for a chess forum?
Cheers
Carl Hibbard

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