Do you believe in UFOs?

[Richard Cowan]

George, can I shoot you and have your friends heal you, to test their efficacy?

So you don't believe in it that much then...

[Ian Kingston]

The older among us remember how acupuncture was persistently debunked
by the medical association for decades, only recently to gain grudging acceptance as an "alternative" treatment.

Really? Acupuncture is all about the placebo effect: http://www.badscience.net/2007/09/542/. (Quick summary: acupuncture carried out according to traditional Chinese principles works exactly as well as sticking needles into random locations on the body.)

That's not to belittle the placebo effect. However, there's no point in using such treatments if better options are available. And the claimed basis for how acupuncture works (all that stuff about qi and meridians) is clearly revealed as non-existent.

[George Szaszvari]

George, can I shoot you and have your friends heal you, to test their efficacy?

So you don't believe in it that much then...

Yaaawwwnn

[Richard Cowan]

That just makes me want to shoot you anyway...

[George Szaszvari]

The older among us remember how acupuncture was persistently debunked
by the medical association for decades, only recently to gain grudging acceptance as an "alternative" treatment.

Really? Acupuncture is all about the placebo effect: http://www.badscience.net/2007/09/542/. (Quick summary: acupuncture carried out according to traditional Chinese principles works exactly as well as sticking needles into random locations on the body.)

That's not to belittle the placebo effect. However, there's no point in using such treatments if better options are available. And the claimed basis for how acupuncture works (all that stuff about qi and meridians) is clearly revealed as non-existent.

I read that too, and he way overstates his case. Mr Goldcare is interesting, but he isn't necessarily the last word
on the stuff he comments on. I like his critical approach to everything, which is refreshing, except that he seems
to have only one way of looking at things, which he pursues with a religious fervor To be fair I need to
read a lot more of his stuff to decide categorically on this general impression, but the statement that Qi and the
meridians don't exist because of a supposed scientific placebo test, with God knows who involved, is sweeping,
to say the least. Qi and the acupoints most definitely do exist according to my own empirical evidence in the so-
called internal martial arts, which has involved a great deal of pain, otherwise inexplicable physical injuries, and
KOs (there is nothing placebo about physical damage or being KOed), and some amazing relief. In some cases
I found that there are other, more modern western explanations for the effects of manipulating specific acupoints,
or even general areas, and it is always interesting and useful to find common ground, even if the systems and
concepts explaining it were quite different. Again, anyone who wants to check this stuff out, or wants evidence
for it, needs to go and do decades of their own training and research.

[George Szaszvari]

That just makes me want to shoot you anyway...

Note that I will be shooting back, as is our right out here. Wanna make it a fast draw showdown?

[Alex Holowczak]

That just makes me want to shoot you anyway...

Note that I will be shooting back, as is our right out here. Wanna make it a fast draw showdown?

Point of interest but of no relevance to the topic: The second person to draw the gun pulls the trigger first.

[IM Jack Rudd]

Again, anyone who wants to check this stuff out, or wants evidence
for it, needs to go and do decades of their own training and research.

Poppycock. Part and parcel of the scientific method is that you publish your evidence, so that people can examine your claims without having to go and do decades of their own training and research.

[Richard Cowan]

Not sure about that George, someone told me that guns automatically turned into jelly in the States, so it must be true, and I believe it, so it can't be possible for you to shoot back at me!

[Richard Cowan]

You'd have to do decades of research to prove me wrong, and you'd be dead by then!

[George Szaszvari]

Again, anyone who wants to check this stuff out, or wants evidence
for it, needs to go and do decades of their own training and research.

Poppycock. Part and parcel of the scientific method is that you publish your evidence, so that people can examine your claims without having to go and do decades of their own training and research.

Jack, you would be correct if the matter under discussion were about academic papers, experiments, etc,
but the traditional way for acquiring Oriental martial skills and knowledge AFAIK is to find a Sifu/Sensei
willing to teach one, to go through a period of apprenticeship as a student, which can entail quite a few
years of dedication that will include a lot of "life exercises" in humility, that has nothing to do with normal
academic approval ratings, and if Sifu/Sensei deems one worthy, one might actually be taught something
worthwhile. The subject under discussion was about learning to apply skills in a holistic way that includes
life skills and psycho-physical coordination, ultimately to realize a higher purpose in life. Some students
have published books about some of their training and experiences, but one quickly learns that these don't
really help much beyond being an intro for beginners.

[George Szaszvari]

That just makes me want to shoot you anyway...

Note that I will be shooting back, as is our right out here. Wanna make it a fast draw showdown?

Point of interest but of no relevance to the topic: The second person to draw the gun pulls the trigger first.

Sorry, Alex, but I don't like that one. Even if I draw second to shoot first (?!) how can I then trust the
other guy not to pull the trigger first after having drawn first? Perhaps we could get an ET to
referee the proceedings? (Hey, we just got back on topic!)

[George Szaszvari]

You'd have to do decades of research to prove me wrong, and you'd be dead by then!

Yeah, but we could continue on the Astral Plane .... you do realize, of course, that consciousness survives
physical death, right?

[Rob Thompson]

Yeah, but we could continue on the Astral Plane .... you do realize, of course, that consciousness survives
physical death, right?

*facepalms*

[Alex Holowczak]

Sorry, Alex, but I don't like that one.

Well, I have Niels Bohr on my side. I'm less hesitant to provide references for statements I make.