COVid19-What's wrong with UK?

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David Williams
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Re: COVid19-What's wrong with UK?

Post by David Williams » Sun Jan 10, 2021 10:34 pm

At the very least it's insensitive. And ill-advised to have something like that on a public forum under your own name.

John McKenna
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Re: COVid19-What's wrong with UK?

Post by John McKenna » Mon Jan 11, 2021 1:58 am

I think you've taken what was said the wrong way.

If you see it that way then others may see it the same.

Therefore it may be advisable to try to make the basically valid point in a less demonstrable way.

As to whether anyone is ever going to held to account for what has been going on during the last 12 months only time will tell.

But, if the next 12 months aren't demonstrably better than the last the sooner the time comes the better as far as I'm concerned.
Last edited by John McKenna on Mon Jan 11, 2021 9:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Jon Tait
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Re: COVid19-What's wrong with UK?

Post by Jon Tait » Mon Jan 11, 2021 8:17 am

David Williams wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 10:34 pm
At the very least it's insensitive. And ill-advised to have something like that on a public forum under your own name.
Alternatively you could take the time to go back through a thread a little and understand the context in which something is written and hence what it actually means instead of just rushing to be shocked. Failing that, perhaps just admit your mistake when it's been pointed out to you.
blog inspired by Bronstein's book, but using my own games: http://200opengames.blogspot.co.uk/

David Williams
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Re: COVid19-What's wrong with UK?

Post by David Williams » Mon Jan 11, 2021 8:44 am

Jon Tait wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 8:17 am
David Williams wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 10:34 pm
At the very least it's insensitive. And ill-advised to have something like that on a public forum under your own name.
Alternatively you could take the time to go back through a thread a little and understand the context in which something is written and hence what it actually means instead of just rushing to be shocked. Failing that, perhaps just admit your mistake when it's been pointed out to you.
I admit that I reacted in haste, and assuming the context is as you say, I apologise. I haven't read the thread in any detail because I'm not particularly interested. I stand by the second post, and the second sentence in particular. Irony doesn't work well online, and there are plenty who would misinterpret, accidentally or deliberately.

John McKenna
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Re: COVid19-What's wrong with UK?

Post by John McKenna » Mon Jan 11, 2021 9:04 am

Jon, it's like David W has picked up your telescope incorrectly - if the wrong end is looked through it just doesn't work and will not magnify and make clear the thing being observed.

I see things your way but the way you put it was in the strongest possible terms in terms of disasters that have happened in the UK in the not that distant past.

However, the article below shows the divide on this topic (see thread title) that exists in a (suitably random?) sample of people in a poll -

"... The government’s handling of the virus more generally has also seen a small drop. The number who approve is now 31% (-3), while the number disapproving is 48% (+3). This is the highest disapproval number since early November.

Overall, Labour hold a one-point lead on 40% of the vote, with the Conservatives on 39%. The Lib Dems are on 6%, the SNP on 5%, and the Greens on 4%.

Opinium polled 2,003 people online on 6-7 January."

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/most-think-bo ... 31542.html

It seems to me to indicate that there's no big preponderance of people who think the handling of the pandemic has been horrendous - only a significant majority at this time, probably.
To find a for(u)m that accommodates the mess, that is the task of the artist now. (Samuel Beckett)

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Jon Tait
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Re: COVid19-What's wrong with UK?

Post by Jon Tait » Mon Jan 11, 2021 9:29 am

David Williams wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 8:44 am
I admit that I reacted in haste, and assuming the context is as you say, I apologise. I haven't read the thread in any detail because I'm not particularly interested. I stand by the second post, and the second sentence in particular. Irony doesn't work well online, and there are plenty who would misinterpret, accidentally or deliberately.
Yes, okay. And point taken about irony not working well. It's just that I'm almost permanently angry at this point, so it's either bitter irony or an unrelenting stream of abuse. Probably I should just log off.
blog inspired by Bronstein's book, but using my own games: http://200opengames.blogspot.co.uk/

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Jon Tait
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Re: COVid19-What's wrong with UK?

Post by Jon Tait » Mon Jan 11, 2021 9:41 am

John McKenna wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 9:04 am
I see things your way but the way you put it was in the strongest possible terms in terms of disasters that have happened in the UK in the not that distant past.
Quite so. It was a sledgehammer post. But anything less seems, well, less.
John McKenna wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 9:04 am
It seems to me to indicate that there's no big preponderance of people who think the handling of the pandemic has been horrendous - only a significant majority at this time, probably.
It needs pointing out again and again and again and again and again. The video I posted does a good job of that. The official opposition should be much much louder. But really it's the job of the fourth estate, most of which unfortunately has no political interest in doing so. Surprisingly Piers Morgan is one of the few exceptions here.
blog inspired by Bronstein's book, but using my own games: http://200opengames.blogspot.co.uk/

Gareth T Ellis
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Re: COVid19-What's wrong with UK?

Post by Gareth T Ellis » Mon Jan 11, 2021 1:24 pm

post by Jon Tait » Mon Jan 11, 2021 8:17 am

"David Williams wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 10:34 pm
At the very least it's insensitive. And ill-advised to have something like that on a public forum under your own name."

Alternatively you could take the time to go back through a thread a little and understand the context in which something is written and hence what it actually means instead of just rushing to be shocked. Failing that, perhaps just admit your mistake when it's been pointed out to you.
Jon, read this, dated 6th Jan 2021, only days before your posts.

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/all-about/hillsborough

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Matt Mackenzie
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Re: COVid19-What's wrong with UK?

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Mon Jan 11, 2021 1:56 pm

David Williams wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 8:44 am
Jon Tait wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 8:17 am
David Williams wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 10:34 pm
At the very least it's insensitive. And ill-advised to have something like that on a public forum under your own name.
Alternatively you could take the time to go back through a thread a little and understand the context in which something is written and hence what it actually means instead of just rushing to be shocked. Failing that, perhaps just admit your mistake when it's been pointed out to you.
I admit that I reacted in haste, and assuming the context is as you say, I apologise. I haven't read the thread in any detail because I'm not particularly interested. I stand by the second post, and the second sentence in particular. Irony doesn't work well online, and there are plenty who would misinterpret, accidentally or deliberately.
Well, that is one of the ways in which smileys can be very useful.
"Set up your attacks so that when the fire is out, it isn't out!" (H N Pillsbury)

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Jon Tait
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Re: COVid19-What's wrong with UK?

Post by Jon Tait » Mon Jan 11, 2021 2:13 pm

Gareth T Ellis wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 1:24 pm
Jon, read this, dated 6th Jan 2021, only days before your posts.

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/all-about/hillsborough
thanks — offending item removed from post
blog inspired by Bronstein's book, but using my own games: http://200opengames.blogspot.co.uk/

NickFaulks
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Re: COVid19-What's wrong with UK?

Post by NickFaulks » Mon Jan 11, 2021 6:42 pm

John McKenna wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 1:58 am
As to whether anyone is ever going to held to account for what has been going on during the last 12 months only time will tell.
Don't hold your breath.
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face — forever.

Matthew Turner
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Re: COVid19-What's wrong with UK?

Post by Matthew Turner » Tue Jan 12, 2021 9:02 am

I saw this article on the BBC which I think is staggering, it is definitely worth a read

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-54906234

MartinCarpenter
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Re: COVid19-What's wrong with UK?

Post by MartinCarpenter » Tue Jan 12, 2021 9:50 am

Matthew Turner wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 9:02 am
I saw this article on the BBC which I think is staggering, it is definitely worth a read

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-54906234
That looks like non intuitive but probably actually very sensible public health guidelines.

The vaccines don't do any good if you're already infected and incubating, or get infected for a few weeks after getting it. Infection control in care homes isn't great so the negative tests don't tell you terribly much.

So there's only limited point putting it into a care home which has an outbreak going on. Might seem callous but we've got massive need and only limited vaccine stocks to deploy.

John McKenna
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Re: COVid19-What's wrong with UK?

Post by John McKenna » Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:57 am

"... so the negative tests don't tell you terribly much."

Worse than that they can be more dangerous than false positives.

If someone has the virus but does not isolate due to a false negative they are a risk to everyone they come into contact with. Whereas if someone isolates due to a false positive only they suffer and only financially in the main.

"What is a false negative? How does it happen?"

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medica ... r-BB1coHYO
To find a for(u)m that accommodates the mess, that is the task of the artist now. (Samuel Beckett)

Matthew Turner
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Re: COVid19-What's wrong with UK?

Post by Matthew Turner » Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:59 am

MartinCarpenter wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 9:50 am
Matthew Turner wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 9:02 am
I saw this article on the BBC which I think is staggering, it is definitely worth a read

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-54906234
That looks like non intuitive but probably actually very sensible public health guidelines.

The vaccines don't do any good if you're already infected and incubating, or get infected for a few weeks after getting it. Infection control in care homes isn't great so the negative tests don't tell you terribly much.

So there's only limited point putting it into a care home which has an outbreak going on. Might seem callous but we've got massive need and only limited vaccine stocks to deploy.
I was thinking more about what it means for the roll-out of the vaccine rather than the specifics of the case itself.

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