Pedants United

A section to discuss matters not related to Chess in particular.
NickFaulks
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Re: Pedants United

Post by NickFaulks » Sat Apr 03, 2021 2:35 pm

Or I shall be accused.
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David Sedgwick
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Re: Pedants United

Post by David Sedgwick » Sat Apr 03, 2021 3:44 pm

Kevin Thurlow wrote:
Sat Apr 03, 2021 1:30 pm
"It may just be I, as I am notoriously pedantic, ..."

I wonder if anyone will dislike the split infinitive? If you change the word order, it gets worse.

Oh, all right, "order of the words", or I will be accused of using an adjectival noun.
There is no infinitive, split or otherwise, in the words of mine which you quoted.
NickFaulks wrote:
Sat Apr 03, 2021 2:35 pm
Or I shall be accused.
Quite correct, Nick.

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MJMcCready
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Re: Pedants United

Post by MJMcCready » Sat Apr 03, 2021 8:40 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
Sat Apr 03, 2021 2:35 pm
Or I shall be accused.
What's the one function 'shall' has which 'will' does not have. Or how can we make a sentence where we can't replace 'shall' with 'will'?

Paul Habershon
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Re: Pedants United

Post by Paul Habershon » Sat Apr 03, 2021 10:21 pm

MJMcCready wrote:
Sat Apr 03, 2021 8:40 pm
NickFaulks wrote:
Sat Apr 03, 2021 2:35 pm
Or I shall be accused.
What's the one function 'shall' has which 'will' does not have. Or how can we make a sentence where we can't replace 'shall' with 'will'?
Shall v will is complicated and sometimes has special significance in legal documents.

However, off my own bat (NB not 'back' as some like to say) I can answer your question thus:
'Shall we dance?' is not the same as 'Will we dance?'

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MJMcCready
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Re: Pedants United

Post by MJMcCready » Sat Apr 03, 2021 10:46 pm

Yes, as far as I know polite requests require shall only, 'Shall I put the kettle on' for example.

Paul Habershon
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Re: Pedants United

Post by Paul Habershon » Sun Apr 11, 2021 7:10 am

I wasn't going to bother with this one, but I've just heard it twice on Radio 5 Live, including once from the presenter, who should know better. In a discussion on hospitals and infections we got '...mitigate against these threats...'

I have often heard this before. Mitigate means to soften or to lessen the effect of, so the 'against' is redundant. I think people confuse it with 'militate' which can take 'against'.

While I'm here I'll also mention my irrational objection to 'vaccine' being pronounced vakSEEN.
I accept that the word can legitimately rhyme with plasticine or Yeltsin, but prefer the stress to be on the first syllable.

Finally, that same Radio 5 Live programme had someone saying innOvative, with the stress on the second syllable. I hadn't heard that one before.

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MJMcCready
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Re: Pedants United

Post by MJMcCready » Sat Apr 24, 2021 12:24 am

Paul Habershon wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 7:10 am
I wasn't going to bother with this one, but I've just heard it twice on Radio 5 Live, including once from the presenter, who should know better. In a discussion on hospitals and infections we got '...mitigate against these threats...'

I have often heard this before. Mitigate means to soften or to lessen the effect of, so the 'against' is redundant. I think people confuse it with 'militate' which can take 'against'.

While I'm here I'll also mention my irrational objection to 'vaccine' being pronounced vakSEEN.
I accept that the word can legitimately rhyme with plasticine or Yeltsin, but prefer the stress to be on the first syllable.

Finally, that same Radio 5 Live programme had someone saying innOvative, with the stress on the second syllable. I hadn't heard that one before.
I find the qualification of non-gradable adjectives harder than that, for example, 'that apple is very delicious' and 'that really was quite amazing.' It's either delicious or not or amazing or not I would say. Other words could be used such 'fantastic' or 'good'.

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MJMcCready
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Re: Pedants United

Post by MJMcCready » Sun Apr 25, 2021 12:04 am

MJMcCready wrote:
Sat Apr 24, 2021 12:24 am
Paul Habershon wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 7:10 am
I wasn't going to bother with this one, but I've just heard it twice on Radio 5 Live, including once from the presenter, who should know better. In a discussion on hospitals and infections we got '...mitigate against these threats...'

I have often heard this before. Mitigate means to soften or to lessen the effect of, so the 'against' is redundant. I think people confuse it with 'militate' which can take 'against'.

While I'm here I'll also mention my irrational objection to 'vaccine' being pronounced vakSEEN.
I accept that the word can legitimately rhyme with plasticine or Yeltsin, but prefer the stress to be on the first syllable.

Finally, that same Radio 5 Live programme had someone saying innOvative, with the stress on the second syllable. I hadn't heard that one before.
I find the qualification of non-gradable adjectives harder than that, for example, 'that apple is very delicious' and 'that really was quite amazing.' It's either delicious or not or amazing or not I would say. Other words could be used such 'fantastic' or 'good'.

Paul, how would you pronounce, "The water in Majorca don't taste quite like it ought to"?

Nick Ivell
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Re: Pedants United

Post by Nick Ivell » Sun Apr 25, 2021 9:29 am

Is it just me, or is this phrase 'social distancing' utterly vile?

I cannot imagine anything more anti-social.

I would prefer a factual 'one meter rule, two meter rule ' etc.

But being pedantic, perhaps this belongs in a COVID thread.

Kevin Thurlow
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Re: Pedants United

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Sun Apr 25, 2021 10:59 am

"I would prefer a factual 'one meter rule, two meter rule ' etc."

or even "metre", but I agree your main point.

"Social distancing" is a continuation of the fad for using words and phrases wrongly, like "homophobia", which means "fear of the same", using "bad" to mean "good", and "wicked" to mean "very good". Employers say, "We value our staff" meaning "We will rob them blind, and hope they die of exhaustion, as we are too lazy to murder them, whoever they are."

Ian Thompson
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Re: Pedants United

Post by Ian Thompson » Sun Apr 25, 2021 11:00 am

Nick Ivell wrote:
Sun Apr 25, 2021 9:29 am
But being pedantic, perhaps this belongs in a COVID thread.
I would tend to agree that making the comment below in the pedants thread was not wise. :)
Nick Ivell wrote:
Sun Apr 25, 2021 9:29 am
I would prefer a factual 'one meter rule, two meter rule ' etc.
What sort of meter?

Nick Ivell
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Re: Pedants United

Post by Nick Ivell » Sun Apr 25, 2021 11:09 am

Oops, I seem to have slipped into an Americanism; normally a pet hatred of mine.

My mistake, and quite the wrong thread in which to have made it.

Nick Ivell
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Re: Pedants United

Post by Nick Ivell » Sun Apr 25, 2021 11:18 am

Having shot myself in the foot once already today, I'm moving swiftly on.

Since when has 'kompromat' been an acceptable word for journalists to use?

From its context, I assume it's Russian for 'damaging evidence'.

Journalists, please keep your use of Russian to 'glasnost' and 'perestroika' - I'm getting confused here!

Kevin Thurlow
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Re: Pedants United

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Sun Apr 25, 2021 1:35 pm

"Having shot myself in the foot"

or the 30 cm...

Paul Habershon
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Re: Pedants United

Post by Paul Habershon » Sun Apr 25, 2021 4:54 pm

MJMcCready wrote:
Sat Apr 24, 2021 12:24 am

Paul, how would you pronounce, "The water in Majorca don't taste quite like it ought to"?
If the issue is the last two words, I wouldn't elide 'ought' and 'to'.

However, I may well go wrong with 'Majorca'? J sound or Y sound? I think I usually go Y, but I don't know what's pedantically correct. I suppose the Spanish go Y, but it would be ridiculous if we copied the French and said Paree for Paris.

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