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Re: Pedants United
Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2021 9:03 pm
by MJMcCready
It's an annoying phrase because it makes you wonder whether they know they are making a mistake or just following a trend.
Re: Pedants United
Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2021 11:53 pm
by NickFaulks
David Sedgwick wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 7:55 pm
I have also found that young non-native speakers attribute their excellent English, or rather their excellent American, to watching American films.
When I lived in Holland in the 1980s I was very envious of the ability of young people there to converse in languages other than their native Dutch. How could they not? Since before they could talk they had been watching Tom & Jerry on television, in English.
Re: Pedants United
Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 8:56 am
by Kevin Thurlow
"How could they not? Since before they could talk they had been watching Tom & Jerry on television, in English."
As a digression, the brilliant pianist Lang Lang actually imitates Tom when playing one piece (I think Liszt's Hungarian Rhapsody) as he watched "Cat Concerto" as a very young child.
I've encountered a number of Europeans who speak quite good English, but with American accents...
Re: Pedants United
Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 9:48 am
by Alex McFarlane
As this is the place for pedants: They would not have learned much English from Tom & Jerry. The main characters seldom spoke and the humans seemed to be restricted to screams and calling out "Tom".
Bugs Bunny would have been a far better example to give!!
Re: Pedants United
Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 1:52 pm
by John McKenna
Sunday night on her regular LBC Radio slot the stumbling (when it comes to public speaking) sister of the UK's mumbling Prime Minister came up with -
"People are waiting for Joe Biden to pull the cat out of the bag."
Have public schools and Oxbridge been dumbing down?
Re: Pedants United
Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:33 pm
by NickFaulks
John McKenna wrote: ↑Thu Jan 21, 2021 1:52 pm
Have public schools and Oxbridge been dumbing down?
They're letting anyone in nowadays.
Re: Pedants United
Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2021 10:59 am
by Kevin Thurlow
I don't have shares in redmolotov, this is purely for info...
https://www.redmolotov.com/the-pedants-revolt-tshirt
Re: Pedants United
Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:41 pm
by Paul Habershon
A fine example of why the apostrophe should be carefully preserved. 'The Pedants' Revolt' title on the shirt tells us that more than one pedant is involved. Also without the apostrophe 'revolt' becomes a verb and the meaning is changed.
I think there's a pedantic joke about the Revolt's leader, Wat Tyler, but I've forgotten the exact wording.
Re: Pedants United
Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2021 4:37 pm
by Kevin Thurlow
"I think there's a pedantic joke about the Revolt's leader, Wat Tyler, but I've forgotten the exact wording."
Barry Cryer - "Who led the Pedants' Revolt? Which Tyler."
Re: Pedants United
Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2021 4:24 pm
by Neil Graham
I've just had an e-mail from East Midlands Railway to "enter our new innovation contest".
Re: Pedants United
Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2021 8:20 am
by Paul Habershon
Recent question in 'The Times' daily quiz (where I rarely get more than half marks): Who did Robert Greene (c 1558-92) call 'an upstart crow, beautified with our feathers'?
The first word of the question should surely be 'whom'. Is it gradually falling out of use? Needless to say, I rather like it and would preserve it.
Incidentally I didn't know the answer.
Re: Pedants United
Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2021 8:55 am
by Tim Spanton
Paul Habershon wrote: ↑Sat Feb 06, 2021 8:20 am
Recent question in 'The Times' daily quiz (where I rarely get more than half marks):
Who did Robert Greene (c 1558-92) call 'an upstart crow, beautified with our feathers'?
The first word of the question should surely be 'whom'. Is it gradually falling out of use? Needless to say, I rather like it and would preserve it.
Incidentally I didn't know the answer.
Are you sure about this?
Surely the subject of the sentence is the person referred to by Robert Greene, rather than Robert Greene himself, and so who should be used rather than whom.
Also, there seems to be a generally accepted rule that questions start with who rather than whom. The Cambridge Dictionary states in a discussion of "Who, whom" that "we use who as an interrogative pronoun to begin questions about people."
Re: Pedants United
Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2021 10:42 am
by Paul Habershon
Tim Spanton wrote: ↑Sat Feb 06, 2021 8:55 am
Paul Habershon wrote: ↑Sat Feb 06, 2021 8:20 am
Recent question in 'The Times' daily quiz (where I rarely get more than half marks):
Who did Robert Greene (c 1558-92) call 'an upstart crow, beautified with our feathers'?
The first word of the question should surely be 'whom'. Is it gradually falling out of use? Needless to say, I rather like it and would preserve it.
Incidentally I didn't know the answer.
Are you sure about this?
Surely the subject of the sentence is the person referred to by Robert Greene, rather than Robert Greene himself, and so who should be used rather than whom.
Also, there seems to be a generally accepted rule that questions start with who rather than whom. The Cambridge Dictionary states in a discussion of "Who, whom" that "we use who as an interrogative pronoun to begin questions about people."
I'm standing my ground for the time being, Tim. Grammatically the main verb is 'did call' and the subject is Robert Greene, who did the calling. The interrogative pronoun 'who', beginning questions about people, would be correct if the question started 'Who is the person that Robert Greene called....'
For Whom the Bell Tolls!
Re: Pedants United
Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2021 1:24 pm
by Nick Ivell
I don't like 'whom', and think it truly antiquated, except after a preposition on occasion.
Re: Pedants United
Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2021 1:56 pm
by Mike Gunn
Perhaps 'whom' could be antiqued, like some of those chess pieces you can buy from Chess and Bridge?