WORLD CUP!!!

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Matt Mackenzie
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Re: WORLD CUP!!!

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Fri Jun 25, 2010 11:04 pm

Alex Holowczak wrote:
Matt Mackenzie wrote:Most of what we now know as Wales was sovereign until the 13th century.

It wasn't often united under one native ruler, but was on occasion (rather like Ireland)
Well yes, but it was only in about 1950 that Wales ceased to be legally an indivisible part of England. Yet Wales had competed separately in football and rugby for half a century or more before that.
But you originally queried if Wales had *ever* been sovereign. I was merely answering that point :P
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Alex Holowczak
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Re: WORLD CUP!!!

Post by Alex Holowczak » Fri Jun 25, 2010 11:29 pm

Matt Mackenzie wrote:
Alex Holowczak wrote:
Matt Mackenzie wrote:Most of what we now know as Wales was sovereign until the 13th century.

It wasn't often united under one native ruler, but was on occasion (rather like Ireland)
Well yes, but it was only in about 1950 that Wales ceased to be legally an indivisible part of England. Yet Wales had competed separately in football and rugby for half a century or more before that.
But you originally queried if Wales had *ever* been sovereign. I was merely answering that point :P
OK, OK... :)

I echo Eoin's point about how good it is that Spain and Chile progressed. Switzerland just defend for 120 minutes and take their chance in the shoot-out. It didn't work against Ukraine in 2006 though. :D

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Wilf Arnold
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Re: WORLD CUP!!!

Post by Wilf Arnold » Sat Jun 26, 2010 10:10 am

Alex McFarlane wrote:John,

England to score 99 penalties! How many hundred will they need to take to score that many?

Ah its good to see Engurland supporters suffering the way Scots fans have been for years!

By the way, is the English education system so bad that the fans only recognise the flag if it has the name written on it?
No it's so they can tell which is the front and which is the back!

I'll be watching tomorrow in a beer garden with 10000 Germans - should be fun!

Alex McFarlane
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Re: WORLD CUP!!!

Post by Alex McFarlane » Sat Jun 26, 2010 1:32 pm

Snow White was getting worried. The Dwarves were over 2 hours late for dinner. She decided to go to the mine to investigate. To her horror there was a cave -in. She shouted into the cave and listened for a reply.

"#Engerland! Engerland! Engerland! We'll win the cup again ...." came the muffled reply.

"Thank God," said Snow White, "at least Dopey's still alive."

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

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Ben Purton
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Re: WORLD CUP!!!

Post by Ben Purton » Sat Jun 26, 2010 1:35 pm

That was about as funny as the Scottish world cup hope.........O wait they did not qualify.
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Richard Bates
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Re: WORLD CUP!!!

Post by Richard Bates » Sat Jun 26, 2010 2:24 pm

Alex McFarlane wrote:Snow White was getting worried. The Dwarves were over 2 hours late for dinner. She decided to go to the mine to investigate. To her horror there was a cave -in. She shouted into the cave and listened for a reply.

"#Engerland! Engerland! Engerland! We'll win the cup again ...." came the muffled reply.

"Thank God," said Snow White, "at least Dopey's still alive."

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
Get with the programme! Nobody is stupid enough to invite ridicule by saying that England can/will win the World Cup anymore. The new phrase is "England can reach the final" ;)

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Re: WORLD CUP!!!

Post by Alex Holowczak » Sat Jun 26, 2010 2:31 pm

Ben Purton wrote:That was about as funny as the Scottish world cup hope.........O wait they did not qualify.
Well, to be fair, they did manage to push the might of Macedonia all the way in a 1-0 loss in their opening game.

Jonathan Rogers
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Re: WORLD CUP!!!

Post by Jonathan Rogers » Sat Jun 26, 2010 6:47 pm

Alex, I happened to watch Snow White today, and as Doc explains, Dopey does not speak (because he has never tried).

Is no one interested in World Cup invasion then (previous page on this thread)? I would have thought that would have interested chess players, with their love of history/statistics/trivia/all of the above - and most of all, arguing about all of the above. Perhaps it only works in pubs.

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John Saunders
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Re: WORLD CUP!!!

Post by John Saunders » Sun Jun 27, 2010 7:00 am

Well, I for one thought Alex's joke was very funny. But of course there exists a perfect riposte to all Caledonian wind-ups, from now until doomsday. Perhaps some of you are too young to remember. I post this link with an apology to my late (Glaswegian) mum and my army of Scottish relatives...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcE86JmIN3E

... oh dear, oh dear, tears still come to my eyes when I remember 1978. But not tears of sorrow. As Lou Macari himself said, "at least when Scotland go out of the World Cup they give everyone a good laugh!".
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Simon Spivack
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Re: WORLD CUP!!!

Post by Simon Spivack » Sun Jun 27, 2010 8:12 am

Jonathan Rogers wrote:Is no one interested in World Cup invasion then (previous page on this thread)? I would have thought that would have interested chess players, with their love of history/statistics/trivia/all of the above - and most of all, arguing about all of the above. Perhaps it only works in pubs.
Some of us don't even know which teams qualified for the World Cup. However, to stop the gallus folk complaining about the state of the education system south of the border, I may check the French total. I presume the BBC website has a list of contestants.

This test is tailor made for Carsten. I'll delegate to him the task of checking the rest. ;)

Richard Bates
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Re: WORLD CUP!!!

Post by Richard Bates » Sun Jun 27, 2010 8:38 am

Simon Spivack wrote:
Jonathan Rogers wrote:Is no one interested in World Cup invasion then (previous page on this thread)? I would have thought that would have interested chess players, with their love of history/statistics/trivia/all of the above - and most of all, arguing about all of the above. Perhaps it only works in pubs.
Some of us don't even know which teams qualified for the World Cup. However, to stop the gallus folk complaining about the state of the education system south of the border, I may check the French total. I presume the BBC website has a list of contestants.

This test is tailor made for Carsten. I'll delegate to him the task of checking the rest. ;)
Does Rome qualify as Italy for the purpose of this?

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Re: WORLD CUP!!!

Post by John Upham » Sun Jun 27, 2010 12:26 pm

Will David Batty, Gareth Soutgate and Stuart Pearce be recalled to take the obligatory penalties? I do hope so... :lol:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggCD1obiTTA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpFFZMREce4

Enjoy!
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Simon Spivack
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Re: WORLD CUP!!!

Post by Simon Spivack » Sun Jun 27, 2010 1:25 pm

Jonathan Rogers wrote:I introduced ... my patented game "World Cup invasion". You had to work out which of the 32 starting countries had invaded the most of the other 31 countries in the past. "Invasion" requires non-consensual occupation of at least 60% of the land mass of another country for at least two months. No bonus points for repeat invasions of the same country.
Richard Bates wrote:Does Rome qualify as Italy for the purpose of this?
Quite, the whole exercise looks like an East Saxon trap. No wonder our two shires are no longer a united and complete kingdom, a kingdom whose name I have forgotten.
Jonathan Rogers wrote:You might have thought that England would have done well, given that Australia and NZ qualified. But at the end of the evening France and Spain seemed to be tied first with nine conquests each.
The tricky part, of course, is to observe that two human feet only occupy a small area. It is exceedingly improbable that the feet of any army ever occupied even thirty percent of the land area of all but the tiniest of countries. Thus the answer is almost certainly that they have all "invaded" each other equally often, i.e. not at all. I doubt if even England's football fans have ever been able to non-consensually occupy sixty percent of another state's land area.

Consider, instead, the game variant of a military subjugation of at least sixty percent of the land area of another country. As Richard has pointed out, "country" is a shifting term; do we, for instance, mean the present boundaries of France or her natural frontiers? Do we just mean the Fifth Republic, or all the manifestations (sic) of France.

Let us leave these problems to the game's designers and assume we have the answers.

According to http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/footbal ... efault.stm the list of entrants is:

Algeria, Argentina, Australia, Brazil, Cameroon, Chile, Denmark, England, France, Germany, Ghana, Greece, Honduras, Italy, Ivory Coast, Japan, Mexico, Netherlands, New Zealand, Nigeria, North Korea, Paraguay, Portugal, Serbia, Slovakia, Slovenia, South Africa, South Korea, Spain, Switzerland, USA and Uruguay.


Taking them one at a time and looking at what La Belle France did to them. Note that I am writing this from memory. There are probably some slip-ups.


Country Notes Running total.
Algeria, former colony 1

Argentina, 1

Australia, 1

Brazil, 1

Cameroon, former colony 2

Chile, 2

Denmark, During the Napoleonic wars it was controlled by France. However, it enjoyed a measure of autonomy. Denmark also contributed troops. For instance, Hamburg was occupied by a Franco-Danish force under the command of Davout. On balance I leave the running total unchanged at 2, although I'd understand why some may wish to bump the number up to 3.

England, Who can forget what the Orcs did in 1066? I say the running total is 3, for the feudal overlord of these demons was the King of France.

France, Given the French revolution; I'd say yes, sixty percent plus has been subjected to a non-consensual military occupation. I make the running total 4

Germany, Boney overran nearly all 5

Ghana, 5

Greece, 5

Honduras, 5

Italy, Yep, Boney 6

Ivory Coast, former French colony 7

Japan, 7

Mexico, Maximilian 8

Netherlands, Boney 9

New Zealand, 9

Nigeria, 9

North Korea, 9

Paraguay, 9

Portugal, The Lines of Torres Vedras were designed to defend Lisbon from the French. I don't know how much of Portugal the French occupied, but it is possible that they reached sixty percent. I'll stick my neck out and say yes. 10

Serbia, Soult was made the Duke of Dalmatia by Boney. I believe it included bits of Serbia, but less than sixty percent. Hence no and the running total is 10.

Slovakia, Boney often defeated the Hapsburgs, however, I doubt his forces occupied more than sixty percent. 10

Slovenia, See Soult above. 11

South Africa, 11

South Korea, 11

Spain, Peninsular War 12

Switzerland, During the French Revolutionary and Napoleonic Wars, Switzerland's neutrality was violated by both sides. For instance. on the allied side, the Army of Bohemia invaded France after the Battle of Leipzig via Basle. On the French side bits of Switzerland were occupied to assist the Army of Italy etc. It was in the late 1790s, I can't recall the precise date. I suspect the answer is yes, but am not certain. So
13

USA 13

Uruguay 13

David Gilbert
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Re: WORLD CUP!!!

Post by David Gilbert » Sun Jun 27, 2010 2:54 pm

How many times today will the BBC commentators say the game is "just like a chess match"? Is that a non-reversing simile or have there been chess matches that were just like football matches?

Roger de Coverly
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Re: WORLD CUP!!!

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sun Jun 27, 2010 2:57 pm

Jonathan Rogers wrote: You might have thought that England would have done well, given that Australia and NZ qualified. But at the end of the evening France and Spain seemed to be tied first with nine conquests each.
Simon Spivack wrote:Let us leave these problems to the game's designers and assume we have the answers.
If you include being part of the Western Allies and the UN and liberation by invasion is also included, you can get a very high score for England ( UK really)

Using Simon's format

Country Notes Running total.
Algeria, 0

Argentina, 0

Australia, 1

Brazil, 1

Cameroon, 1

Chile, 1

Denmark, 1

England, 1

France, 2 (WW2 and 100 years war)

Germany, 3 (WW2)
Ghana, 4 (colony)

Greece, 5 (WW2)

Honduras, 5

Italy, 6 (WW2)

Ivory Coast, 6

Japan, 6

Mexico, 6

Netherlands, 7 (WW2)

New Zealand, 8

Nigeria, 9 (colony)

North Korea, 10 (Korean war)

Paraguay, 10

Portugal, 10

Serbia, 10.

Slovakia, 10

Slovenia,10

South Africa, 11

South Korea, 12 (Korean war - unless you read the North Korean version of their history)

Spain, Peninsular War 13

Switzerland, 13

USA 14 (but not the present land area)

Uruguay 14

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