In BOD we trust!

A section to discuss matters not related to Chess in particular.
Roger de Coverly
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Re: In BOD we trust!

Post by Roger de Coverly » Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:48 am

Mick Norris wrote: Why does the chess World Cup (or candidates matches) have everyone playing at the same time on the same days? If you wanted to maximise internet coverage, why not stagger them?
You can see why all the games in a tournament should take place at the same time, because you give an advantage to the later players if they know the required result. The third qualifying round in the Soccer World Cup is now always played that way, probably because of Germany - Austria one year. In a head-to-head like the World Cup or Candidates matches, it's less obvious that needs to be so. You would still have the problem of more intensive use of venues, arbiters, commentators etc.

Mick Norris
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Re: In BOD we trust!

Post by Mick Norris » Tue Sep 27, 2011 6:12 pm

As I said, it is obvious with tournaments

The World Cup could be played on a morning/afternoon start basis for the top/bottom half, and it might encourage a reduction from 128 players that turned the final matches into a test of stamina (Pono was knackered I think by then)

Candidiates - if the matches were held together but with, say, 3 weeks between rounds, you could have them in different time zones e.g. Sao Paolo, Bilbao, Moscow, Beijing for the quarters, New York and Dubai for the semis, London for the final or if you wanted to keep it simpler, spread them though different cities in Russia

Yes, I know, it all comes down to money
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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: In BOD we trust!

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Wed Sep 28, 2011 6:10 pm

I'm trying to imagine a mid-chess tournament rugby match, as opposed to cricket or football!

Paul McKeown
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Re: In BOD we trust!

Post by Paul McKeown » Sat Oct 01, 2011 11:26 am

Some great games. Yesterday's South Africa - Samoa was epic. Today France lose to Tonga.

And England - Scotland. At the start I was hoping to see Scotland rescue some pride, but I couldn't help myself, once Scotland got ahead a Celtic red mist descended, I was hoping to see the Scot's get their eight point victory, no matter what damage it did to Ireland's path to the final! Sadly, I suspect that the Scot's are lacking that essential extra 5% of fitness, in the end nothing else explains losing two tight games in the last five minutes. Back to the gym, boys, and win the 6 Nations next year...

As for England, well, they did just enough, winning ugly is a sign of a basically good team. I do like the grafters in the team, the Lewis Moody's, etc., but can't stand the big swinging dicks, the ones who just can't help showing off and pratting about off the pitch. The mentality that seems to be that they deserve to win the Webb Ellis, without putting in the necessary effort. I imagine that Martin Johnson gets enormously frustrated some of the time, can't understand why he doesn't just fire a couple of the players (out of a cannon) just to show he's serious about pride in the shirt.

Been biting my fingernails for a fortnight (if not more) thinking about the Ireland - Italy game. Italy are going to come at Ireland and Ireland are going to need to dig deep, defend and grind, and maybe even have come back at Italy late in the game. Italy have the players to break Irish hearts.

Alex Holowczak
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Re: In BOD we trust!

Post by Alex Holowczak » Sat Oct 01, 2011 11:41 am

Paul McKeown wrote:I imagine that Martin Johnson gets enormously frustrated some of the time, can't understand why he doesn't just fire a couple of the players (out of a cannon) just to show he's serious about pride in the shirt.
Actually, I think Martin Johnson coaches them to be pretty fine on rule-infringements. I seem to remember that as a player, Johnson pushed the boundaries very, very well, and he's trying to get England to do the same. As a result, they commit loads of penalties.

England's indiscipline is well-known. The same players don't have these problems in domestic rugby, so I reckon it must be coached into them when they play for England.

Paul McKeown
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Re: In BOD we trust!

Post by Paul McKeown » Sat Oct 01, 2011 11:46 am

Alex Holowczak wrote:
Paul McKeown wrote:I imagine that Martin Johnson gets enormously frustrated some of the time, can't understand why he doesn't just fire a couple of the players (out of a cannon) just to show he's serious about pride in the shirt.
Actually, I think Martin Johnson coaches them to be pretty fine on rule-infringements. I seem to remember that as a player, Johnson pushed the boundaries very, very well, and he's trying to get England to do the same. As a result, they commit loads of penalties.

England's indiscipline is well-known. The same players don't have these problems in domestic rugby, so I reckon it must be coached into them when they play for England.
I was referring to discipline off the pitch.

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Re: In BOD we trust!

Post by Paul Cooksey » Sat Oct 01, 2011 11:52 am

Discipline on the field an issue too. Interesting point about Johnson, arguably an example of the classic mistake of a very good player turned coach. The coach expects the players to do something he was good at, but is beyond less talented players.

David Robertson
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Re: In BOD we trust!

Post by David Robertson » Sat Oct 01, 2011 4:44 pm

What's to be made of that French result - the ponger v. Tonga? Is this a seriously substandard French squad, or a one-off result? After the England-Scotland game, someone gets a free ride to the Final, whichever of England or France reaches the semis.

I don't share PMcK's generosity towards England. They look drab sacks of cement, the back Three possibly excepted. I don't believe either that Ireland will have trouble beating Italy. Please not! But I do support the very helpful suggestion that a number of English magnae mentulae penduli be strapped across the cannon-mouth, Amritsar-style, and blasted far into the Great Southern Ocean

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: In BOD we trust!

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Sat Oct 01, 2011 5:39 pm

I was actually rather impressed with the way England rode their luck in the Scotland game and still won. They were much better in the second half than in the first half, and their rolling ruck (or is that a maul? I get the two confused - the one with the ball in the hand, not on the ground) was good. Of course their defence will need to be better, but in a way the draw from here to the final gives England two more games to get their act together for the final if they can get that far.

Anyone like to hazard a guess as to how the quarters and semis in the Southern Hemisphere side of the draw will go? Presuming Argentina beat Georgia and Ireland beat Italy, the Southern Hemisphere quarters will take place on the Sunday, a day after the Northern Hemisphere quarters. The quarters for the Southern Hemisphere will be: South Africa vs Australia and New Zealand vs Argentina.

It also looks like New Zealand will be the only side to get maximum points from their group games. And what about that ballgate incident. Swapping balls to help Jonny find his kicking mojo again? Tut tut! :D

Paul McKeown
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Re: In BOD we trust!

Post by Paul McKeown » Sat Oct 01, 2011 10:04 pm

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:rolling ruck (or is that a maul? I get the two confused - the one with the ball in the hand, not on the ground)
Ruck - ball on the ground, players from both teams attempting to clear the ball or their opponents
Maul - ball off the ground, held by a player who has not been tackled but has been held by an opposing player still in contact and is bound by at least one team mate

Similarities:
- illegal to throw the ball back in once cleared
- illegal to join from offside
- illegal to jump on top
- heads and shoulders must be kept above hips

Differences:
- Not allowed to deliberately collapse a maul (v. naughty - bad cases can be carded)
- Not allowed to clear opposing players from a maul, quite normal in a ruck
- Must bind into a maul properly. Swallow diving into a maul will definitely get pinged!
- Basic method in a ruck is boot on ball, any booting in a maul is a definite carding! This is changing though, it used to be quite normal to give someone a shoeing if they were trying to handle the ball in a ruck, but now the human rights of the miscreant are protected and deliberate shoeing falls under the title of dangerous play.
- In a ruck a player must release the ball if he is stopping it coming out, otherwise he will get pinged. A maul is completely different, as it is deliberately held by a player and has not been grounded.

I'm sure I haven't explained it well, but I think you can get the idea!

David Robertson
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Re: In BOD we trust!

Post by David Robertson » Sat Oct 01, 2011 10:14 pm

Kiwi mate just texted me: just announced, Dan Carter is out of RWC (groin injury) - not just the next game. Big blow for the ABs

Mick Norris
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Re: In BOD we trust!

Post by Mick Norris » Sun Oct 02, 2011 9:49 am

Carter definitely out
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_u ... 135350.stm

BOD scores a try, then Earls, so Ireland will go through as winners

Quarter finals in order:

Saturday - England v France then Ireland v Wales
Sunday - New Zealand v Argentina then South Africa v Australia

Semis - top half following Saturday, bottom half following Sunday

Not the way the draw was designed to pan out, but interesting nonetheless
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Kevin Williamson
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Re: In BOD we trust!

Post by Kevin Williamson » Sun Oct 02, 2011 10:23 am

Mick Norris wrote:Quarter finals in order:

Saturday - England v France then Ireland v Wales
Sunday - New Zealand v Argentina then South Africa v Australia

Semis - top half following Saturday, bottom half following Sunday

Not the way the draw was designed to pan out, but interesting nonetheless
Probably more interesting than if results had gone with seeding.

I reckon all four Northern Hemisphere teams will fancy their chances of getting to the final from here. Ireland and Wales seem to have found some form and England and France have room for improvement. Not straightforward to predict the other half either, but NZ have an easier quarter final than their next opponents, and with home advantage I’d expect them to get through.

I’ll stick my neck out and go for an Ireland - New Zealand final.

Paul Cooksey

Re: In BOD we trust!

Post by Paul Cooksey » Sun Oct 02, 2011 10:44 am

I really enjoyed both games today. I was impressed by Wales. I'd assumed if England beat France we'd play Ireland, but not sure now.

I don't think the easier QF is in NZs favour. They haven't been stretched yet, and going into a semi against a good team cold, and without Carter, will be tough.

David Robertson
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Re: In BOD we trust!

Post by David Robertson » Sun Oct 02, 2011 11:09 am

Yes, I think Wales are the NH team to watch. My Kiwi mate, mentioned above, asked for my opinion on the NH teams after the warm-up games. My comment on Wales is worth revisiting: Wales? No idea, frankly. They could be a big surprise - in either direction!.

Well, they haven't lost to Namibia, so that's one direction eliminated. If they beat Ireland, they'll beat England - maybe. But somehow, given the draw, I fancy England to plod their way through, trailing clouds of scorn. And in the Final, meeting a sparking AB unit that has united the world in admiration of running rugby, England will prevail 6-5, thanks to a last minute drop goal from Jonny :D

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