What is best Private Education or State Education

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Peter D Williams
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What is best Private Education or State Education

Post by Peter D Williams » Thu Jul 18, 2013 4:03 pm

What do members on here think is best for a child Private education or State Education?

My own view is that private education is better for a child having been able to visits a number of private schools when Peter played chess such as Wellington college.Many of these private schools also appeared to do far more Activities than a state school.I also noticed formal lesson would take place on a Saturday to.I know of no state school that does this?

Well i hope your all enjoying this wonderful weather we are having.I got to go and sprinkle water over our Westie dog to cool him down :D
when you are successful many losers bark at you.

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Peter D Williams
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Re: What is best Private Education or State Education

Post by Peter D Williams » Tue Dec 03, 2013 2:56 pm

I was rather puzzled to see no one on this forum had a view over what is best. A Private Education or a State Education.We are all friends on here so no need to be shy about what you think is best.

Wrap up warm the cold weather will soon be here. I always wear a thermal insulated hat and gloves when the temperature falls below 8 c and do not forgot to drink plenty of warm drinks. :D
when you are successful many losers bark at you.

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Re: What is best Private Education or State Education

Post by John Upham » Tue Dec 03, 2013 3:44 pm

Is home schooling a potential third option?

Some of my chess classes/clubs are for small groups of home schooled children.

Thanks for the clothing advice.
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Re: What is best Private Education or State Education

Post by Simon Brown » Tue Dec 03, 2013 4:15 pm

When there are so many grammatical errors in the title, a mere eight-word "sentence", perhaps others, like me, were put off replying. Until now.

I attended a grammar school, my wife a comprehensive school and we sent our kids to a private school. Home schooling not seriously considered. Hopefully that is a coherent answer.

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Peter D Williams
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Re: What is best Private Education or State Education

Post by Peter D Williams » Tue Dec 03, 2013 4:42 pm

Simon Brown wrote:When there are so many grammatical errors in the title, a mere eight-word "sentence", perhaps others, like me, were put off replying. Until now.

I attended a grammar school, my wife a comprehensive school and we sent our kids to a private school. Home schooling not seriously considered. Hopefully that is a coherent answer.
Some answers. I knew people on here where not shy and with a little prompting would answer after all we are all friends chatting away on here.
Are you a fully qualified English degree teacher to add to your other talents? do i miss out on the gold star this week :wink:

I am not talking about home education. I was interested in what is best private education or state school education and in your view private education is best for a child? I believe private education is best for a child to looks like we have more in common than you would think.
when you are successful many losers bark at you.

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Peter D Williams
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Re: What is best Private Education or State Education

Post by Peter D Williams » Tue Dec 03, 2013 4:43 pm

John Upham wrote:Is home schooling a potential third option?

Some of my chess classes/clubs are for small groups of home schooled children.

Thanks for the clothing advice.
No its not a third option for this post we do not want to muddy the waters i could do a post for that i guess for anther day? and most home educators i have met prefer the word Home education to home schooling.

You must have a view private or state school?

Do keep warm its colder i just been out into the garden maybe a frost tonight.
when you are successful many losers bark at you.

PeterFarr
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Re: What is best Private Education or State Education

Post by PeterFarr » Tue Dec 03, 2013 5:04 pm

For most parents, the question is simply an irrelevance, since the fees would leave them unable to clothe, feed or house themselves adequately. Median household after tax earnings are around £27k, while average independent school fees are £10k+ a year even for day pupils, which no doubt largely explains why 93% of children are State-educated.

It should be pretty obvious that independent schools are able to provide more activities, given the size of the fees. Assuming it is affordable for a particular family, the question is whether independent schools provide enough added value for it to be worthwhile.

I can point to independent schools in my own locality that achieve inferior GCSE results to the State schools that my own children attend. Given that Independent schools are selective and therefore able to cream off higher ability students, whereas the State schools only select by geography, I think a parent sending their child to these particular Independent schools should be asking some pretty tough questions.

Of course we are particularly fortunate to live in an area with good state schools; the answer for us is a no-brainer. For others it is no doubt completely different. Also where children are exceptionally gifted or different from the norm in some other way, one suspects the State system tends to struggle, as it is generally geared up for (and financed for) provision of a fairly standard service.

I do think in general that the media tends to let independent schools off rather lightly when the value of education is analyzed; the focus tends always to be on trying to find fault with the State system - I suppose because so much of taxation goes in that direction.

Personally, I would like to see the independent sector disappear; not through being abolished, but simply because the State system is so good that fee-paying becomes a stupid thing to do. That's a pipe-dream of course.

Edit: - P.S. Peter's question was perfectly clear, grammatical errors or not. Also I think Peter's little asides about the weather, garden etc., serve as a valuable reminder that this is after all a conversational forum rather than a gladiatorial coliseum, to use a rather clumsy analogy.

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Re: What is best Private Education or State Education

Post by Neill Cooper » Tue Dec 03, 2013 6:44 pm

Peter D Williams wrote:What do members on here think is best for a child Private education or State Education?

My own view is that private education is better for a child having been able to visits a number of private schools when Peter played chess such as Wellington college.Many of these private schools also appeared to do far more Activities than a state school.I also noticed formal lesson would take place on a Saturday to.I know of no state school that does this?
It is 'horses for courses' - a school that suits one child might be completely wrong for another. This is particularly important when considering boarding schools.

Yes, many independent schools have more co-curricula activities than most state schools. For a boarding school it is essential to have activities to engage their pupils in the evening.

The reason why some boarding schools have Saturday lessons is because they have shorter terms so less Mondays to Friday lessons.

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Re: What is best Private Education or State Education

Post by Greg Breed » Wed Dec 04, 2013 10:13 am

Neill Cooper wrote:It is 'horses for courses' - a school that suits one child might be completely wrong for another. This is particularly important when considering boarding schools.

Yes, many independent schools have more co-curricula activities than most state schools. For a boarding school it is essential to have activities to engage their pupils in the evening.

The reason why some boarding schools have Saturday lessons is because they have shorter terms so less Mondays to Friday lessons.
They often have an entire afternoon a week geared towards sports. I used to have that in the 80's, but when I moved home and went to a different school, in a different area, under a different system; that disappeared - sadly. I've always been state educated, but i know many from both sides. I often wondered if I would have preferred boarding or private school if it was ever an option...
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Peter D Williams
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Re: What is best Private Education or State Education

Post by Peter D Williams » Wed Dec 04, 2013 2:52 pm

PeterFarr wrote:For most parents, the question is simply an irrelevance, since the fees would leave them unable to clothe, feed or house themselves adequately. Median household after tax earnings are around £27k, while average independent school fees are £10k+ a year even for day pupils, which no doubt largely explains why 93% of children are State-educated.

It should be pretty obvious that independent schools are able to provide more activities, given the size of the fees. Assuming it is affordable for a particular family, the question is whether independent schools provide enough added value for it to be worthwhile.

I can point to independent schools in my own locality that achieve inferior GCSE results to the State schools that my own children attend. Given that Independent schools are selective and therefore able to cream off higher ability students, whereas the State schools only select by geography, I think a parent sending their child to these particular Independent schools should be asking some pretty tough questions.

Of course we are particularly fortunate to live in an area with good state schools; the answer for us is a no-brainer. For others it is no doubt completely different. Also where children are exceptionally gifted or different from the norm in some other way, one suspects the State system tends to struggle, as it is generally geared up for (and financed for) provision of a fairly standard service.

I do think in general that the media tends to let independent schools off rather lightly when the value of education is analyzed; the focus tends always to be on trying to find fault with the State system - I suppose because so much of taxation goes in that direction.

Personally, I would like to see the independent sector disappear; not through being abolished, but simply because the State system is so good that fee-paying becomes a stupid thing to do. That's a pipe-dream of course.

Edit: - P.S. Peter's question was perfectly clear, grammatical errors or not. Also I think Peter's little asides about the weather, garden etc., serve as a valuable reminder that this is after all a conversational forum rather than a gladiatorial coliseum, to use a rather clumsy analogy.
Afternoon All :D

You make some very good points here including that for most people it would cost to much with all the other living cost one has to send your child to a private school.Your right that in some state school the school struggles to cope with a child that may be gifted.
Like you say its a pipe dream hoping that the state system will ever replace all private schools.
Watching the sky program about Harrow private school i never really thought about the contacts these parents/child make with each other and the benefits it will bring them in years to come as many of the parents are very rich who can pull strings to help each other.

Pleased you like more thoughts about the weather/garden etc.
Today i walked our Westie dog in the Woods and all the different shades on the leaves was beautiful.If you get the chance any one on here go out and walk in the woods look at the leaves on the trees and on the ground but do be careful as the leaves can be very slippery and you could fall or trip.Looking at the weather if your up north The public should be prepared for the potential for significant disruption due to the wind and rain.The south will escape the worse of it so any members up north do be careful tonight if your out driving or walking.
when you are successful many losers bark at you.

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Re: What is best Private Education or State Education

Post by Geoff Chandler » Wed Dec 04, 2013 5:03 pm

"What is best Private Education or State Education."

Neither, send your kids to China, South Korea or Singapore.

Recent Education league tables shows that Britain is 28th in the world.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/ed ... ables.html

"Worldwide rankings comparing 500,000 pupils in 65 countries will reveal that the UK
is languishing far behind nations such as China, South Korea and Singapore in maths, reading and science.

The research, published tomorrow, will show that although Britain spends far more on education than
many other countries, performance has stagnated since an appalling showing in the last international
league tables, three years ago.

Those results showed performance in this country slumping from 17th to 25th for reading and from 24th
to 28th for maths - worse than the results in Estonia and Poland. "

So it would appear it does matter what type of school you send your kids too, they are all naff.
Despite an increase in funding to the tune of £30bn it has done no good.
The money is obviously being wasted on over-paid teachers who are not doing their job.
Toss the lot of them into Call Centres and invite Chinese and South Korean teachers to take their place.
We pay top wages so it should be fairly easy to poach them.

Graham Borrowdale

Re: What is best Private Education or State Education

Post by Graham Borrowdale » Wed Dec 04, 2013 5:05 pm

Peter D Williams wrote:Watching the sky program about Harrow private school i never really thought about the contacts these parents/child make with each other and the benefits it will bring them in years to come as many of the parents are very rich who can pull strings to help each other.
I suspect Peter D Williams is not as niave as he makes out here. One thing which is obvious to me is that you can very often spot someone who has had a private education, many many years after that education has finished. They may well have far better social skills than the rest of us, for example. They may well be in very good jobs, which Peter alludes to. They may well be in very powerful positions (eg government). They may well come across as superior or aloof. It is just possible that the concept of the 'old school tie' has not yet disappeared, and in fact is stronger than ever just now.

None of this answers the question as to which type of school offers children a better education. I went to a state grammar school, which had a good academic record; my children go to a state comprehensive, which also has a good academic record. I firmly believe that the academic results of a school can generally only be as good as the kids going into it, but that a better school will ensure that each pupil achieves their potential. That is all you can really ask. I have seen no evidence that private schools necessarily get more out of the kids relative to their potential than state schools.

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Re: What is best Private Education or State Education

Post by Nick Burrows » Wed Dec 04, 2013 6:31 pm

I have seen no evidence that private schools necessarily get more out of the kids relative to their potential than state schools.
The fact that private schools perform better by most criteria is in itself evidence as the kids in themselves have no more potential than from other schools.

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IM Jack Rudd
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Re: What is best Private Education or State Education

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Wed Dec 04, 2013 6:55 pm

Nick Burrows wrote:
I have seen no evidence that private schools necessarily get more out of the kids relative to their potential than state schools.
The fact that private schools perform better by most criteria is in itself evidence as the kids in themselves have no more potential than from other schools.
Error! Assumes facts not in evidence.

(Most private schools will have some form of selection policy, and having high academic potential will tend to feature rather heavily in such a policy.)

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Re: What is best Private Education or State Education

Post by PeterFarr » Wed Dec 04, 2013 8:10 pm

IM Jack Rudd wrote:
Nick Burrows wrote:
I have seen no evidence that private schools necessarily get more out of the kids relative to their potential than state schools.
The fact that private schools perform better by most criteria is in itself evidence as the kids in themselves have no more potential than from other schools.
Error! Assumes facts not in evidence.

(Most private schools will have some form of selection policy, and having high academic potential will tend to feature rather heavily in such a policy.)
Also of course, privately educated children already come typically from more privileged backgrounds, and will be very much advantaged compared to the average, before they ever set foot in school.

There's an argument that the private school system helps to reinforce the class system and is thereby a contributory factor to the problem of social immobility we have in this country. Though the real answer to that must be to improve State education rather than level everything down.

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