Lenin's Doom

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David Robertson
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Lenin's Doom

Post by David Robertson » Sat Feb 22, 2014 11:10 pm

Hugely amusing to watch these preposterous bombastic statues toppled nose-first into the dirt :)

John McKenna
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Re: Lenin's Doom

Post by John McKenna » Sat Feb 22, 2014 11:51 pm

David, it does seem to be a momentous day. Let's remember all those ordinary men and women who choose to stand and be counted. Even when 'democratic' governments' hands seem to be tied. Tied partly by fear of their own people standing up to them some day, perhaps. Of course, it could be done here via the ballot box if only people would stop voting for a three-headed chimera of fear in our tripartite state. Anyway, I'll trouble you no more henceforth - peace be with you.
To find a for(u)m that accommodates the mess, that is the task of the artist now. (Samuel Beckett)

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Lenin's Doom

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sun Feb 23, 2014 12:05 am

David Robertson wrote:Hugely amusing to watch these preposterous bombastic statues toppled nose-first into the dirt :)
Surprising really that there were any left to topple but perhaps it is different in the territories of the former Soviet Union. Poland won a military conflict back in around 1920/21 against Soviet Russia, with the result that part of post 1945 Ukraine had been Polish. That's presumed part of the present unrest since Poland west of the Curzon line is observed to be doing better than that part of the Ukraine reoccupied by Stalin in 1939 and 1944/45.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Lenin's Doom

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sun Feb 23, 2014 1:19 am

A cynical if true tweet from Malcolm Pein

https://twitter.com/TelegraphChess/stat ... 7581517824

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Peter D Williams
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Re: Lenin's Doom

Post by Peter D Williams » Tue Feb 25, 2014 1:50 pm

David Robertson wrote:Hugely amusing to watch these preposterous bombastic statues toppled nose-first into the dirt :)
Been watching Russian Prime Minster Dmitry Medvedev and what he had to say about the situation,

Russian prime minister Dmitry Medvedev warned it did not recognise the authorities which came to power in Kiev’s weekend revolution in which 82 people died.

He said: 'We do not understand what is going on there. There is a real threat to our interests and to the lives of our citizens.'

Kiev believes Russian president Vladimir Putin - enraged by the ousting of Moscow-backed Yanukovych - is already putting its armed forces on alert.

Former Kremlin economics advisor Andrey Illarionov warned that a furious Putin is sweeping aside Western warnings and preparing a 'Russian Anschluss of Sevastopol which is due to happen in a week, maximum three weeks.'

Putin has previously cited a duty to protect the lives of its citizens as justification for military intervention in Georgia in 2008.

Beef tonight with roast potatoes cooked by Carol :D
when you are successful many losers bark at you.

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: Lenin's Doom

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Tue Feb 25, 2014 1:52 pm

This BBC article seems apposite:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-26271024

Though not in a good way. :(

John McKenna
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Re: Lenin's Doom

Post by John McKenna » Tue Feb 25, 2014 2:08 pm

Interesting posts, above...

Monday's Daily Telegraph front page.had -
Britain (sic) offers cash to Kiev as world watches Putin.
It seems we have entered a time of chequebook diplomacy.
Nothing really new about that - except the paper.
Didn't Napoleon have something to say about "English gold".
Another interesting thing is that England supplied Napoleon with weapons-grade materials even while fighting him.
Why not profit from war - later the US discovered that huge profits could be made that way.
They successfully negotiated their way into WW I on that basis.
Then they perfected the method in WW II.
These days there are only small wars but the profit motive persists for having them.
Only in the face of direct aggression - such as tbe Falklands or Twin Towers will an unprofitable war be deemed necessary by the US & UK.

Wonder if Peter will be doing boiled beef & carrots next week, whle Carol puts her feet up.


NB: The Curzon line...
Last edited by John McKenna on Tue Feb 25, 2014 2:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
To find a for(u)m that accommodates the mess, that is the task of the artist now. (Samuel Beckett)

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Peter D Williams
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Re: Lenin's Doom

Post by Peter D Williams » Tue Feb 25, 2014 2:09 pm

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:This BBC article seems apposite:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-26271024

Though not in a good way. :(
The Russian foreign ministry in a Tuesday statement on the monument’s dismantling, the Russian Foreign Ministry demanded that the new Ukrainian authorities “stop this lawlessness.” and Russian Foreign ministry in a twitter feed said " The ministry branded the move as “a new barbaric Russophobic stunt.”

I do a rather good fry up that Carol enjoys :D
when you are successful many losers bark at you.

John McKenna
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Re: Lenin's Doom

Post by John McKenna » Tue Feb 25, 2014 2:20 pm

Above is a minuteman newsflash for those not wanting to follow a link


There was no time to prepare a dessert menu.
To find a for(u)m that accommodates the mess, that is the task of the artist now. (Samuel Beckett)

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: Lenin's Doom

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Tue Feb 25, 2014 2:30 pm

Article may actually be more relevant here:

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/g ... 180949729/

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Peter D Williams
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Re: Lenin's Doom

Post by Peter D Williams » Tue Feb 25, 2014 3:58 pm

John McKenna wrote:Above is a minuteman newsflash for those not wanting to follow a link


There was no time to prepare a dessert menu.
Official twitter-account of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Russian Federation has said in the last 2 hours " We want to curtail the influence of radicals and nationalists who are trying to play first fiddle in Ukraine"

It will be cheese after the roast beef :D
when you are successful many losers bark at you.

John McKenna
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Re: Lenin's Doom

Post by John McKenna » Tue Feb 25, 2014 5:27 pm

Peter W>... I do a rather good fry up that Carol enjoys :D <

Pleased to hear hear that splendid news, Peter.
Enjoy (the cheese) :D
To find a for(u)m that accommodates the mess, that is the task of the artist now. (Samuel Beckett)

Paul McKeown
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Re: Lenin's Doom

Post by Paul McKeown » Tue Feb 25, 2014 10:49 pm

Putin and his crowd never got on with Yanukovich, anyway. He was always viewed as a bit rubbish by them, latterly, though as all they had. They were mad about Timoshenko, though, they thought she was their girl. That was then, though, not now that the Gas Girl has gone all Ukrainian on them. The Russian speaking Ukrainians in general don't trust their Ukrainian speaking nationals, but they don't want to be part of Putin's Russia, either, as they aren't crazy. That is all different, though, with Crimea, which was subject to mass deportations in Stalin's time and then (and still is) used by ethnic Russian apparatchiks as a holiday resort and by the Russian armed forces as their major naval base on the Black Sea. The Russian establishment is now hopping mad, as they have been rudely awakened from their fetid dreams of a wider Russophone economic bloc, one which they could hope to boss, and one with which they could dream of a resurgent empire.

John McKenna
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Re: Lenin's Doom

Post by John McKenna » Tue Feb 25, 2014 11:12 pm

Paul is back on song, and sometimes I cannot disagree with even a word.
This is another one of those times. .
(Now if Putin was still a card-carrying commie I'd have to try to read between the lines - like Simon Spivack does, so well.)
To find a for(u)m that accommodates the mess, that is the task of the artist now. (Samuel Beckett)

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: Lenin's Doom

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Wed Feb 26, 2014 8:15 am

Paul McKeown wrote:Putin and his crowd never got on with Yanukovich, anyway. He was always viewed as a bit rubbish by them, latterly, though as all they had. They were mad about Timoshenko, though, they thought she was their girl. That was then, though, not now that the Gas Girl has gone all Ukrainian on them. The Russian speaking Ukrainians in general don't trust their Ukrainian speaking nationals, but they don't want to be part of Putin's Russia, either, as they aren't crazy. That is all different, though, with Crimea, which was subject to mass deportations in Stalin's time and then (and still is) used by ethnic Russian apparatchiks as a holiday resort and by the Russian armed forces as their major naval base on the Black Sea. The Russian establishment is now hopping mad, as they have been rudely awakened from their fetid dreams of a wider Russophone economic bloc, one which they could hope to boss, and one with which they could dream of a resurgent empire.
Presumably the hope is that some sort of detente will be reached over Crimea and the naval base - what is the exact legal status, is it similar to the Baikonur Cosmodrome, leased from Kazakhstan, or is it more than that? On the wider economic influence, is the primary matter energy and minerals? Russia's influence mostly stems from its vast hinterland of mineral and fuel resources, doesn't it? (And its army as well). East of the Urals, the vastness of the scale of the landscape and the relative sparseness of the populations in cities scattered across the various regions is overwhelming at times. The geography and demographics of European Russia is complex as well, but very different. The politics, I've never really understood. Does that arise mostly from the history, or it is shaped more by modern social and economic forces?

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