Euro elections

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Richard Bates
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Euro elections

Post by Richard Bates » Sun May 25, 2014 10:14 pm

I see a chessplayer has just been elected to the European Parliament for UKIP...

NickFaulks
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Re: Euro elections

Post by NickFaulks » Mon May 26, 2014 3:17 am

Never in doubt!

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: Euro elections

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Mon May 26, 2014 11:04 am

Do we have a name for this UKIP MEP and chess player?

EDIT: From the BBC "It will be the first time a national election has not been won by the Conservatives or Labour in 100 years - and the first time a party with no MPs at Westminster has achieved such a result."

That is quite impressive. Though unlikely to be repeated in 2015, I hope. I kind of regret now being disorganised enough not to submit a postal or proxy vote for this election (I was away on holiday, ironically, in Europe, last week). Even more ironic as these elections being some form of proportional representation (I forget which), the votes actually count for something. (Speaking of not voting, I was talking about this while on holiday - does anyone think the UK should move to a system where people get fined for not voting?)

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Paolo Casaschi
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Re: Euro elections

Post by Paolo Casaschi » Mon May 26, 2014 11:31 am

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:Speaking of not voting, I was talking about this while on holiday - does anyone think the UK should move to a system where people get fined for not voting?
Very unlikely to happen: why established politician would force to vote a large number of unwilling people? Those are a very large proportion of the voting base; those people that today do not feel the need/importance/value to vote would most likely be extremely unpredictable and open the way for even more random protest vote. Nobody currently in office would go that route.

To answer your question, I believe an obligation to vote should not be enforced; in a democracy people should also have the right not to care and give up representation.

Still, it might be an interesting proposal for the ECF council meetings: anyone (organization, congress, individual, whatever) entitled to join and vote at an ECF council meeting should be fined for failing to show up and vote. Maybe ECF board members should also be fined for missing board meetings ;-)

MartinCarpenter
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Re: Euro elections

Post by MartinCarpenter » Mon May 26, 2014 11:33 am

Jonathan Arnott of Sheffield/sometimes White Rose etc. iirc he's been a councilor for a plausible length of time.

Very unlikely indeed to repeat in 2015. EU elections have horrible turn outs, but seem to rather motivate the UKIP support. Somewhat ironic really :)

Mick Norris
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Re: Euro elections

Post by Mick Norris » Mon May 26, 2014 11:54 am

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:Even more ironic as these elections being some form of proportional representation (I forget which), the votes actually count for something.
If you are interested:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-27187434
Any postings on here represent my personal views and should not be taken as representative of the Manchester Chess Federation www.manchesterchess.co.uk

MartinCarpenter
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Re: Euro elections

Post by MartinCarpenter » Mon May 26, 2014 2:11 pm

Its better than pure FPTP, but still a long way off being properly proportional :)

I did think they had a centralised top up to get it better aligned, but that's clearly something else. Scottish/Welsh parliaments perhaps.

Lib dems seemingly back in fifth overall for the country. Impressive....

Richard Bates
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Re: Euro elections

Post by Richard Bates » Mon May 26, 2014 2:24 pm

MartinCarpenter wrote:Jonathan Arnott of Sheffield/sometimes White Rose etc. iirc he's been a councilor for a plausible length of time.

Very unlikely indeed to repeat in 2015. EU elections have horrible turn outs, but seem to rather motivate the UKIP support. Somewhat ironic really :)
Well quite. It's amazing how little this point gets properly analysed in the media who are obsessed with their headlines of "political earthquakes", UKIP getting several MPs... etc etc. Even more so in this election than the usual fare we get in local elections.

The likely reality is that very few people who didn't vote UKIP (or at all) in this election will vote for them in the General Election. So even if they held onto all of their voters their 27% vote would become more like 13%- on a General Election turnout and substantially fewer once one realises that under the FPTP voting system many of their voters will not even get the chance to vote for them (because there will be many, many constituencies where they won't put up a candidate).

So substantially sub 10% even before they have to produce any policies (beyond "leave the EU" and "curb immigration" (by leaving the EU), and before some of their voters decide that they will return to voting for which Government they prefer.

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Matt Mackenzie
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Re: Euro elections

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Mon May 26, 2014 4:17 pm

Is Arnott actually a councillor?
"Set up your attacks so that when the fire is out, it isn't out!" (H N Pillsbury)

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: Euro elections

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Mon May 26, 2014 5:30 pm

Richard Bates wrote:
MartinCarpenter wrote:Jonathan Arnott of Sheffield/sometimes White Rose etc. iirc he's been a councilor for a plausible length of time.

Very unlikely indeed to repeat in 2015. EU elections have horrible turn outs, but seem to rather motivate the UKIP support. Somewhat ironic really :)
Well quite. It's amazing how little this point gets properly analysed in the media who are obsessed with their headlines of "political earthquakes", UKIP getting several MPs... etc etc. Even more so in this election than the usual fare we get in local elections.
I realise you are commenting on the UKIP vote, and I was really as well, but I think the media were referring also to the vote for the National Front in France as well. That was much more of a shock and 'earthquake' I think, though maybe just as transient (for the same reasons). Not sure how French politics works. The result in Italy was interesting as well, though for slightly different reasons (the ruling coalition actually managed to win the vote).

Responding to what Paolo said, I think Australia are an example of a country that require voting. Not sure how that got established there, or indeed in any country that practices this. On other points: thanks for the link to the voting system, and thanks for the name (I had assumed this was a 'chess player' as in someone who only plays occasionally, not someone who actually plays regularly and/or in the 4NCL!).

Andy Stoker
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Re: Euro elections

Post by Andy Stoker » Mon May 26, 2014 9:24 pm

Arnott - very respectable chess - no comment on the politics

Ref Member Name Sex Club Standard Previous Rapidplay Previous
131223G Gold Arnott, Jonathan W M White Rose 186 C 186 C 180 E

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Matt Mackenzie
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Re: Euro elections

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Wed May 28, 2014 4:53 pm

To confirm the above, Arnott has stood several times for UKIP at council level - but Thursday was his first successful election.
"Set up your attacks so that when the fire is out, it isn't out!" (H N Pillsbury)

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