The English Language

A section to discuss matters not related to Chess in particular.
soheil_hooshdaran
Posts: 3148
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 5:24 pm

Re: The English Language

Post by soheil_hooshdaran » Sun Oct 01, 2017 7:54 am

Thanks room.

Is 'obsequies' saying 'bye' to the dead?

MartinCarpenter
Posts: 3053
Joined: Tue May 24, 2011 10:58 am

Re: The English Language

Post by MartinCarpenter » Sun Oct 01, 2017 10:02 am

That's what google say it means - although more the fairly ritual bits of that. New word for me again.

soheil_hooshdaran
Posts: 3148
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 5:24 pm

Re: The English Language

Post by soheil_hooshdaran » Sun Oct 01, 2017 3:05 pm

So in
In our account we shall follow the sequence of the events themselves, dealing first with the period between the death (in the usual sense of the word) and the final obsequies, and then with the concluding ceremony.
What's the difference between "the final obsequies" and 'the concluding ceremony'.?

soheil_hooshdaran
Posts: 3148
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 5:24 pm

Re: The English Language

Post by soheil_hooshdaran » Sun Oct 01, 2017 3:25 pm

What is the meaning of
his distinction does not by any means have an absolute value?
What is having an absolute value meant to mean?

John McKenna

Re: The English Language

Post by John McKenna » Mon Oct 02, 2017 12:10 am

MartinCarpenter wrote:That's what google say it means - although more the fairly ritual bits of that. New word for me again.
Obsequy (singular noun, but usually used in the plural - obsequies) is a rare word these days.

One example of a 'final' obsequy could be "lying in repose", and the "concluding ceremony" would be the actual burial of the deceased.

The related word - and now distinctly Dickensian adjective -'obsequious' is still in use, but not as often as it used to be.

The Victorians were big on obsequies and obsequiousness (think of the "ever so 'umble" character of the literary character Uriah Heep) but such things have died a bit of a death in more modern times.
soheil_hooshdaran wrote:What is the meaning of
his distinction does not by any means have an absolute value?
What is having an absolute value meant to mean?


It means 'absolute' as opposed to 'relative', in value. However, unless more context is provided 'relative' (in value) to what remains unclear.

soheil_hooshdaran
Posts: 3148
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 5:24 pm

Re: The English Language

Post by soheil_hooshdaran » Thu Oct 05, 2017 5:50 am

What's 'funerary contagion'?
In consequence of the funerary contagion they are changed, and set apart from the rest of humanity; therefore they can no longer live the way others do.

MartinCarpenter
Posts: 3053
Joined: Tue May 24, 2011 10:58 am

Re: The English Language

Post by MartinCarpenter » Thu Oct 05, 2017 10:32 am

Contagion == basically illness, but clearly something rather vaguer in this sense.

Some sorts of habits, modes of thought or something picked up by going to too many funerals.

soheil_hooshdaran
Posts: 3148
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 5:24 pm

Re: The English Language

Post by soheil_hooshdaran » Thu Oct 05, 2017 7:25 pm

What does "coincide" mean in

a long time must elapse before they can be completely freed of the ban that weighs upon them, a period which coincides precisely with the length of the temporary sepulture.

Barry Sandercock
Posts: 1356
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:52 am

Re: The English Language

Post by Barry Sandercock » Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:30 pm

Coincides means occurs at the same time.

soheil_hooshdaran
Posts: 3148
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 5:24 pm

Re: The English Language

Post by soheil_hooshdaran » Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:55 pm


John McKenna

Re: The English Language

Post by John McKenna » Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:52 pm

The clue to the dictionary entry being used in -
a long time must elapse before they can be completely freed of the ban that weighs upon them, a period which coincides precisely with the length of the temporary sepulture
Is - "a long time must elapse... a period which coincides...", which indicates that the appropriate dictionary entry being sought is 'contemporaneous' (at exactly the same time).

The duration of the temporary 'ban' lasts exactly as long as the period of 'sepulture' (temporary burial) so that they 'coincide' (end at precisely same time).

An expansion on Martin's concise explanation of "funery contagion", further above, follows -

In various 'primitive' tribes and some modern societies the idea that handling corpses is a source of not only physical pollution but of spiritual pollution, too, can be very strong.

The belief is that associating with those members of the tribe/society who deal directly with the funery preparations - and come into contact with corpses - leads to the spread of the pollution (contagion) from them to other members of the tribe/society.

That attitude usually leads to the group who deal with the dead being separated from, and usually shunned by, the rest.

It can be for a set temporary period (as in the last quote) in a tribal society. Or, for generations in a more 'advanced' society - where it can become part of a class structure that relegates those supposedly contaminated - by contact with dead humans and/or animals to the lowest 'untouchable' class - who are tolerated by the higher classes as long as they keep their distance.

soheil_hooshdaran
Posts: 3148
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 5:24 pm

Re: The English Language

Post by soheil_hooshdaran » Mon Oct 09, 2017 6:58 pm

the transformation which it (the corpse) undergoes is painful and dangerous for itself as well as for those who surround it
means painful for itself as well as those surrounding it?

User avatar
IM Jack Rudd
Posts: 4828
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 1:13 am
Location: Bideford

Re: The English Language

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Mon Oct 09, 2017 7:04 pm

Yes. In that sentence, both "painful" and "dangerous" modify both "itself" and "those who surround it".

soheil_hooshdaran
Posts: 3148
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 5:24 pm

Re: The English Language

Post by soheil_hooshdaran » Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:54 pm

What does 'in this' mean in:
To pass from the spontaneous desiccation, which leaves only the bones, to the special form of desication which transforms the corpse into a mummy, it is enough for the survivors to have developed a desire to consign to the final grave a body as little changed as possible. In this the Egyptian funeral ritual agrees essentially with the beliefs and practices of the Indonesians: for seventy days, the embalmer fights the corruption which tries to invade the corpse; it is only at the end of this period that the body, having become imperishable, is taken to the grave, that the soul departs for the fields of Ialu and that the mourning of the survivors comes to an end.

John McKenna

Re: The English Language

Post by John McKenna » Tue Oct 10, 2017 12:25 am

"In this... " means everything you quoted that is written before, "In this".