English Chess Forum

The reason I then voted no confidence in him as leader is because I have no confidence in him as leader. See above. Plus I had found out from other front bench women how unwilling and unable Corbyn is to communicate with, listen to or work with anyone outside his narrow group.

Mike Truran wrote:

The reason I then voted no confidence in him as leader is because I have no confidence in him as leader. See above. Plus I had found out from other front bench women how unwilling and unable Corbyn is to communicate with, listen to or work with anyone outside his narrow group.

Well, yes, but she is an MP and we know that the party in Westminster has been working to get rid of him since the day he was elected.

If the three strands of the Labour Party are the leadership, the PLP and the members, then it is clear that the PLP is at odds with the other two. Why is it so clear, as accepted by the entire mainstream media, that the PLP is the only one of the three in step?

I was making a different point (and to be fair a well off-topic point iro the 'Not Chess! forum area).

Ah.

NickFaulks wrote:

Mike Truran wrote:

The reason I then voted no confidence in him as leader is because I have no confidence in him as leader. See above. Plus I had found out from other front bench women how unwilling and unable Corbyn is to communicate with, listen to or work with anyone outside his narrow group.

Well, yes, but she is an MP and we know that the party in Westminster has been working to get rid of him since the day he was elected.

If the three strands of the Labour Party are the leadership, the PLP and the members, then it is clear that the PLP is at odds with the other two. Why is it so clear, as accepted by the entire mainstream media, that the PLP is the only one of the three in step?

There is a lot of truth in this tbh.

It is time that much of the PLP stopped believing they are somehow special superbeings that the rest of us should unthinkingly bow down to.

It was inevitable one one set of legal challenges fired, but really!

If you want truly nasty, read the comments under various online Grauniad articles. Especially perhaps some of the pro Corbyn ones.

It's frankly bewildering just how polarised the party members do seem to be.

On a more confusing note, it does seem like people are trying to work out how to keep Scotland in the UK and Europe at once, even if England/Wales leave.

Messy!

There is a sort of precedent I believe. At one stage Greenland (then part of Denmark) was outside the EU even though Denmark was inside. Bit of a different scale, admittedly.

Greenland was part of Denmark when they joined the EEC in 1973, but became an autonomous region (if that's the right phrase) in 1979 and voted to leave the EU in 1982 although it took until 1985 for them to negotiate Grexit or whatever they called it

Thanks Mick.

How autonomous a region were they? (By comparison, say, with the Channel Islands or Scotland say?) [And are they still an autonomous region or completely independent?].

MartinCarpenter wrote:If you want truly nasty, read the comments under various online Grauniad articles. Especially perhaps some of the pro Corbyn ones.

It's frankly bewildering just how polarised the party members do seem to be.

Please also see https://twitter.com/GentlerPolitics, which describes itself as "a Twitter account dedicated to highlighting abuse, insults and antisemitism by Jeremy Corbyn's supporters".

The history of Iceland (also ruled by Denmark from around the 13th and 14th centuries) and how it attained Home Rule (1885), then merely a personal union of the crowns (1918), and finally full independence (1944) is another interesting case. That was all before the EU, but it does make one wonder how that would have been handled today. Ditto some of the unions of the Scandinavian countries.

David Sedgwick wrote:

MartinCarpenter wrote:If you want truly nasty, read the comments under various online Grauniad articles. Especially perhaps some of the pro Corbyn ones.

It's frankly bewildering just how polarised the party members do seem to be.

Please also see https://twitter.com/GentlerPolitics, which describes itself as "a Twitter account dedicated to highlighting abuse, insults and antisemitism by Jeremy Corbyn's supporters".

Surely David, that's just an anti-Corbyn conspiracy?

I hope the Police are investigating some of this, although I appreciate they may be too understaffed

Louts attach themselves to Bury FC, police presence at games increases, bill from GM Police to Bury FC

Police called to constituency Labour Party meeting in Wigan, bill from GM Police to Greater Manchester Council Tax payers

Michael Farthing wrote:Thanks Mick.

How autonomous a region were they? (By comparison, say, with the Channel Islands or Scotland say?) [And are they still an autonomous region or completely independent?].

I think the Danish Government controls foreign and defence policy, and Greeneland does the rest, but I'm not sure

ALgeria left the EU in 1962 when it became independent from France, although examples from before I was born are probably not very relevant now

It's interesting that the debate on this board is running two or three weeks behind the debate in the Scottish media.

There are lots of anomalous regions and islands with some connection to the EU - the overseas territories of the Dutch and French, the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man, Gibraltar and so on.

Most of them are small in terms of population, far away, islands, or some combination thereof, so with all due respect, they don't matter so much.

"Reverse Greenland" was touted as an option immediately - but it seems to be horrifically complicated, and hasn't gained much traction. Greenland basically has one industry (and it took a couple of years to sort out). One problem is the existence of an open border between Scotland and England, meaning it would be comparatively easy for the free movement of labour, goods, capital and services between the EU and non-EU to take place.

If I were cynical, I suspect the shuttle diplomacy that Nicola was carrying out had two purposes - to make her look stateswomanlike, and emphasise the difference between Scotland and England.

Alistair Campbell wrote:If I were cynical, I suspect the shuttle diplomacy that Nicola was carrying out had two purposes - to make her look stateswomanlike, and emphasise the difference between Scotland and England.

So what are the differences? Do Scotland and Wales and Northern Ireland have more in common with England than with continental Europe? The differences between Northern Ireland and Ireland are another case. All are united by a common language. Europe were never going to abandon English as one of the languages of Europe, but Ireland still being there helps with that.

Are those debating this in Scotland aware of what the debate is like in Gibraltar at the moment?