EU referendum aftermath

A section to discuss matters not related to Chess in particular.
Clive Blackburn

Re: EU referendum aftermath

Post by Clive Blackburn » Wed Nov 09, 2016 10:41 am

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:I suppose a thread on Trump would be too depressing. Not a surprising result, really, though. It is clearly a sign of the times.
The voters were left with no real choice, if the Democrats had a credible candidate then they would probably have won fairly easily.
Bernie Saunders would have been a good choice.

User avatar
Christopher Kreuzer
Posts: 7597
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2010 2:34 am
Location: London

Re: EU referendum aftermath

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Wed Nov 09, 2016 11:04 am

How was Trump a credible candidate? People were voting for the message, not the person.

Mike Gunn
Posts: 800
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2007 4:45 pm

Re: EU referendum aftermath

Post by Mike Gunn » Wed Nov 09, 2016 11:14 am

One way of looking at it was that Trump was offering hope to the disenfranchised (in economic terms) whereas Clinton was basically offering a continuation of the status quo. Interestingly, in his acceptance speech, Trump committed himself to spending on infrastructure to generate jobs, which is a traditional Keynesian (or even socialist) approach. I understand he has also committed himself to reducing taxes so presumably the US govt will fund this spending by borrowing?

Matthew Turner
Posts: 3185
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 11:54 am

Re: EU referendum aftermath

Post by Matthew Turner » Wed Nov 09, 2016 11:34 am

It is very rare that the governing party retains the White House after a two term president. It may then be that the result is exactly what you would expect - the Republicans to win over the Democrats. In an increasingly partisan voting system the candidates are really not that important!

MartinCarpenter
Posts: 2690
Joined: Tue May 24, 2011 10:58 am

Re: EU referendum aftermath

Post by MartinCarpenter » Wed Nov 09, 2016 11:49 am

It is definitely rather distressing how incredibly partisan American politics seems to have become. But no, it doesn't need a thread. It mostly beyond rational discussion this one I think.

Nick Burrows
Posts: 1180
Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2010 12:15 pm

Re: EU referendum aftermath

Post by Nick Burrows » Wed Nov 09, 2016 12:23 pm


NickFaulks
Posts: 6138
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:28 pm

Re: EU referendum aftermath

Post by NickFaulks » Wed Nov 09, 2016 1:47 pm

Mike Gunn wrote: I understand he has also committed himself to reducing taxes so presumably the US govt will fund this spending by borrowing?
It will be interesting to see whether the FOMC will be as willing to fund this for Trump as it was for Obama.
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face — forever.

User avatar
Christopher Kreuzer
Posts: 7597
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2010 2:34 am
Location: London

Re: EU referendum aftermath

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Wed Nov 09, 2016 2:06 pm

Nick Burrows wrote:A very thought provoking article: http://www.vox.com/2016/9/19/12933072/f ... ump-brexit
Thanks. Another one here:

http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk ... nald-trump

NickFaulks
Posts: 6138
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:28 pm

Re: EU referendum aftermath

Post by NickFaulks » Wed Nov 09, 2016 2:31 pm

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:How was Trump a credible candidate?
When asked whether Trump was fit to be inside the White House, a significant proportion of those voting for him said no. However, they did not consider his opponent fit to be on the outside of a prison.
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face — forever.

User avatar
Christopher Kreuzer
Posts: 7597
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2010 2:34 am
Location: London

Re: EU referendum aftermath

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Wed Nov 09, 2016 2:40 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
Christopher Kreuzer wrote:How was Trump a credible candidate?
When asked whether Trump was fit to be inside the White House, a significant proportion of those voting for him said no. However, they did not consider his opponent fit to be on the outside of a prison.
Do think those views (of both candidates) were true, or were media/political caricatures?

NickFaulks
Posts: 6138
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:28 pm

Re: EU referendum aftermath

Post by NickFaulks » Wed Nov 09, 2016 2:48 pm

Christopher Kreuzer wrote: Do think those views (of both candidates) were true, or were media/political caricatures?
Genuinely felt in most cases, I would guess. I would also say, correct on both counts.
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face — forever.

Matthew Turner
Posts: 3185
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 11:54 am

Re: EU referendum aftermath

Post by Matthew Turner » Wed Nov 09, 2016 4:37 pm

Christopher Kreuzer wrote: Do think those views (of both candidates) were true, or were media/political caricatures?
I listened to a serious professor of politics talking about his predictions for the US elections last week. I get the impression that he is mildly left leaning and he predicted a Hillary win. However, I was struck by the sheer number of times he said the Clintons were 'sleazy'
The video is available here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_tUI48 ... e=youtu.be

User avatar
Matt Mackenzie
Posts: 3580
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:51 pm
Location: Millom, Cumbria

Re: EU referendum aftermath

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Wed Nov 09, 2016 6:33 pm

Worth pointing out that Clinton is still likely to narrowly win the nationwide popular vote.

Given the margin of Trump's EC win (much bigger than fellow "loser but winner" GWB's in 2000) this is the most "lopsided" result in that respect since the still deeply controversial election of Hayes in 1876.

Interesting times......
"Set up your attacks so that when the fire is out, it isn't out!" (H N Pillsbury)

Alex Holowczak
Posts: 9085
Joined: Sat May 30, 2009 5:18 pm
Location: Oldbury, Worcestershire
Contact:

Re: EU referendum aftermath

Post by Alex Holowczak » Wed Nov 09, 2016 10:01 pm

Matt Mackenzie wrote:this is the most "lopsided" result in that respect since the still deeply controversial election of Hayes in 1876.
Except for 1888, where the % vote was closer, but Grover Cleveland was nowhere close on the Electoral College.

User avatar
John Clarke
Posts: 501
Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2011 1:07 pm

Re: EU referendum aftermath

Post by John Clarke » Fri Nov 11, 2016 9:21 am

When I look at Donald Trump, I see an overweight septuagenarian (BMI 29.6 approx) who isn't known for exercising to any great degree, and who'd look every year of his age without that infamous comb-over*.

Ronald Reagan was about the same age at his inauguration, but at least he kept up a fair degree of physical fitness through horse-riding, etc. (His intellectual fitness for the role was of course debatable, but that's not the issue here.)

I'm not making any firm predictions, but let's say I wouldn't be suprised, if Trump intends taking the job seriously, to see him forced to step down through stress and/or ill-health somewhere after the half-way point in his first term.

*I seem to remember his pledging many months ago to get shot of this were he to win the Presidency. Watch that space ....
"The chess-board is the world ..... the player on the other side is hidden from us ..... he never overlooks a mistake, or makes the smallest allowance for ignorance."
(He doesn't let you resign and start again, either.)

Post Reply