Is it copyright infringement?

A section to discuss matters not related to Chess in particular.
John McKenna
Posts: 3712
Joined: Tue May 17, 2011 2:02 pm

Re: Is it copyright infringement?

Post by John McKenna » Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:31 pm

A British GM once came to Iran... After the (book) signing, WGM P... reprimanded the young man... the GM will be saddened (seeing his book printed and bined? [bound].. in Iran... ) The man (GM?) said (that) he himself is (was) aware of the fact.

Also some people (in the West?) say (-) the reason the books are more expensive in the v?est (West?) in? (is?) that they? (the publishing industry and/or authors?) get the money (that [the] people of Iran and other non-copyright compliant countries w?ould [should] pay) from us (customers?) in [the] west). Is that true?
Are you asking - are the same books that are on sale in both the West and in countries - such as Iran - that produce 'pirated' copies of the same books (in translation) more expensive in the West because those, there, who legally purchase the original untranslated books - are having to pay more, for the said originals, in order to make up for revenue lost from illegal foreign sales of the translations??

And, if the answer to that question is - "No."

Are you implying, "Well, that's all right then. The 'piracy' makes no difference to the higher price(s) in the West. So it (piracy) 'make benefit Glorious Nation...' and the book-buying people of Iran, etc."

I.e. a win for the rest and a draw for the West??

If so, I can give you an answer (subject to your confirmation that what I have partly restated above is a fairly accurate representation of your question).
To find a for(u)m that accommodates the mess, that is the task of the artist now. (Samuel Beckett)

soheil_hooshdaran
Posts: 2800
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 5:24 pm

Re: Is it copyright infringement?

Post by soheil_hooshdaran » Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:27 pm

What do you mean by
make benefit Glorious Nation...
?

E Michael White
Posts: 1333
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2007 6:31 pm

Re: Is it copyright infringement?

Post by E Michael White » Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:03 pm

soheil_hooshdaran wrote:What do you mean by
make benefit Glorious Nation...
?
John is quoting comedian Ali G.

User avatar
IM Jack Rudd
Posts: 3914
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 1:13 am
Location: Bideford

Re: Is it copyright infringement?

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:27 pm

E Michael White wrote:
soheil_hooshdaran wrote:What do you mean by
make benefit Glorious Nation...
?
John is quoting comedian Ali G.
Strictly speaking, this is not a reference to Ali G, but to another of Baron-Cohen's creations, Borat.

soheil_hooshdaran
Posts: 2800
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 5:24 pm

Re: Is it copyright infringement?

Post by soheil_hooshdaran » Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:36 pm

Ok,what does it mean?

E Michael White
Posts: 1333
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2007 6:31 pm

Re: Is it copyright infringement?

Post by E Michael White » Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:39 pm

IM Jack Rudd wrote:Strictly speaking, this is not a reference to Ali G, but to another of Baron-Cohen's creations, Borat.
Yeah right. But Borat was originally created for the Ali G show.

User avatar
IM Jack Rudd
Posts: 3914
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 1:13 am
Location: Bideford

Re: Is it copyright infringement?

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:42 pm

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borat
Borat! Cultural Learnings of America for Make Benefit Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan (or simply Borat) is a 2006 British-American mockumentary comedy film written and produced by British comedian Sacha Baron Cohen who also plays the title character, Borat Sagdiyev, a fictitious Kazakh journalist travelling through the United States recording real-life interactions with Americans...Much of the film features unscripted vignettes of Borat interviewing and interacting with Americans, who believe he is a foreigner with little or no understanding of American customs.

John McKenna
Posts: 3712
Joined: Tue May 17, 2011 2:02 pm

Re: Is it copyright infringement?

Post by John McKenna » Tue Oct 17, 2017 12:23 am

I couldn't resist my little joke - I hope that Soheil gets the gist of it.

It should be said that 'Borat' revealed the Americans he encountered to be somewhat lacking in knowledge of the outside world and quite willing to demonstrate the limitations of the internal workings of their own country.
To find a for(u)m that accommodates the mess, that is the task of the artist now. (Samuel Beckett)

John McKenna
Posts: 3712
Joined: Tue May 17, 2011 2:02 pm

Re: Is it copyright infringement?

Post by John McKenna » Tue Oct 17, 2017 12:33 am

By the way,
… The man (GM?) said (that) he himself is (was) aware of the fact.
I now suspect "the man" in question was not the visiting GM, but was the "young man" who asked the GM to sign his homemade copy of the GM's chess book. Am I right about that?
To find a for(u)m that accommodates the mess, that is the task of the artist now. (Samuel Beckett)

soheil_hooshdaran
Posts: 2800
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 5:24 pm

Re: Is it copyright infringement?

Post by soheil_hooshdaran » Tue Oct 17, 2017 4:24 am

One Iranian IM aaid there are PDF of iriginal books available for free and that he doesn't think that "book authors expect eanings from a country nost of whose population live below the poverty line.

John McKenna
Posts: 3712
Joined: Tue May 17, 2011 2:02 pm

Re: Is it copyright infringement?

Post by John McKenna » Tue Oct 17, 2017 10:05 am

soheil_hooshdaran wrote:One Iranian IM aaid there are PDF of iriginal books available for free and that he doesn't think that "book authors expect eanings from a country nost of whose population live below the poverty line.
My response to that is - just because there are two financially and legally separate(d) markets, which each operate to their own advantage(s)...

Pirating intellectual property of the rich countries - even in a seemingly harmless and benign way - for the benefit of poorer nations is not condoned in the West.

The business there want their pounds of flesh for their intellectual ideas and content.

Having said that, intellectual 'commodities' are being allowed to leak from the developed world to the developing world without much being done to punish/prevent it.

Other than complaints by Trump about the scale of it in the case of China.

You did not answer my little question (about "the man"), above, so I'll assume he was the "young (Iranian) man" and not the "British GM".

I will accept your last post as an answer to the bigger question I asked you, about what you asked, about the price differential between the originals and the pirated books in Iran (and other "...non-compliant countries)

It is now obvious to me that you are trying to justify petty piracy that is just the thin end of a wedge that ends in places like the modern Barbary coast of Somalia.
Last edited by John McKenna on Tue Oct 17, 2017 12:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
To find a for(u)m that accommodates the mess, that is the task of the artist now. (Samuel Beckett)

soheil_hooshdaran
Posts: 2800
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 5:24 pm

Re: Is it copyright infringement?

Post by soheil_hooshdaran » Tue Oct 17, 2017 10:41 am

John McKenna wrote:By the way,
… The man (GM?) said (that) he himself is (was) aware of the fact.
I now suspect "the man" in question was not the visiting GM, but was the "young man" who asked the GM to sign his homemade copy of the GM's chess book. Am I right about that?
Oh, yes. the man said the visiting GM is himself aware of this fact.
There are no retailer of original chess books that I know of in Iran. I myself was fortunate enough to have relatives and aquaintaces in other countries so the brought or otherwise gave me original books during my high scdhool, university studies, and about chess, but most aren't.
Even then, I am facing a problem in translating books because my country doesn't enforce international copyright, just copyright for domestic works. But my colleagues in Iran just translate booksa without the knowledge of the copyright-holder and they are not frowned upon by the copyright-holder, to the best of my knowledge.

John McKenna
Posts: 3712
Joined: Tue May 17, 2011 2:02 pm

Re: Is it copyright infringement?

Post by John McKenna » Tue Oct 17, 2017 1:38 pm

I understand the particular problem you have regarding copyright. It arises from the global isolation, both imposed and self-imposed, of your homeland.

However, after all that has been said here, the question in the title you gave to this thread - Re: Is it copyright infringement? - has already been answered.

What you described in your tale of a book signing is a clear case of the GM author and the owner of the illict copy of the book both turning a blind eye to copyright infringement. That is not a legal justification of the practice. It is a weak moral argument of the personal kind.

Therefore either set aside your morals and keep selling illicit translations or follow them and stop doing it. The choice is yours and yours alone and you are merely trying to salve your conscience by asking such questions here.
To find a for(u)m that accommodates the mess, that is the task of the artist now. (Samuel Beckett)

soheil_hooshdaran
Posts: 2800
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 5:24 pm

Re: Is it copyright infringement?

Post by soheil_hooshdaran » Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:13 pm

John McKenna wrote:I understand the particular problem you have regarding copyright. It arises from the global isolation, both imposed and self-imposed, of your homeland.
No, such a law was in place since 1354 AP, years before the overthrow of Shah. US sanctions began in 1980 after hostage crisis.
Therefore either set aside your morals and keep selling illicit translations or follow them and stop doing it. The choice is yours and yours alone and you are merely trying to salve your conscience by asking such questions here.
Seems it is not.
The word for belief in Arabic which we also use in Farsi is اعتقاد which drives from عقد meaning to tie, bind, therefore one cannot part with his belief. These books seem to be completely leditimate translations. I didn't do any wrong, I thimk.

And I didn't say the GM knew the book was pirated. Only the young guy said so.

John McKenna
Posts: 3712
Joined: Tue May 17, 2011 2:02 pm

Re: Is it copyright infringement?

Post by John McKenna » Tue Oct 17, 2017 10:29 pm

As I said, if you wish to hold to your moral beliefs then stop selling illicit books.

If on the other, third, hand you are sureptitiously arguing that your moral beliefs are above international copyright law and that is because Iran does not adhere to that international law therefore you can do whatever you like regarding translating, publishing and selling any, and all, foreign books you choose to, then do that.

It seems clear enough, now, so why do you regularly raise further questions, here, and tell of what is happening in Iran regarding the matter of copyright?

What are you expect to hear here - yes, we agree with you, Iran has got this right?

Can you say what happens if Iranian authors' books are taken abroad, translated into English and sold - do those authors and copyright holders in Iran see any returns for their work, or, are they told they deserve nothing because Iran does not adhere to international copyright?

(There are 3 separate questions in what I've written, above, answer them each clearly if you can, please.)
To find a for(u)m that accommodates the mess, that is the task of the artist now. (Samuel Beckett)

Locked