New Grade/Age Categories

General discussions about grading.
Nick Grey
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Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2011 12:16 am

Re: New Grade/Age Categories

Post by Nick Grey » Fri Feb 09, 2018 8:50 pm

A really easy way for fraudsters to grab identity and bank details by disclosing date of birth and easily accessible other information.
Excellent information and analysis from all posters, and thanks to Angus, who is still younger than me.
Alex is younger than all of us. Ken Inwood drew against his opponent only 35 ECF higher.
It is only a few weeks until we play Angus's team we may be higher aged but we do some new players that will bring our average age down.
Quite right on 4NCL. It is great to see young and old together in the 4NCL leagues, and especially this weekend, when after they can all enjoy a half-term break.

Neil Graham
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Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:36 pm

Re: New Grade/Age Categories

Post by Neil Graham » Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:13 pm

Perhaps whilst we are discussing this we could have some details of active players in each of the grading bands viz:

<100
100-119
120-139
140-159
160-179
>179

It might help me in a reply to another thread.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: New Grade/Age Categories

Post by Roger de Coverly » Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:53 pm

Neil Graham wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:13 pm
Perhaps whilst we are discussing this we could have some details of active players in each of the grading bands
If you have the necessary spreadsheet skills to analyse it, the ECF makes available a download of the grading results featuring both grade and number of games played.

Neil Graham
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Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:36 pm

Re: New Grade/Age Categories

Post by Neil Graham » Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:14 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:53 pm
Neil Graham wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:13 pm
Perhaps whilst we are discussing this we could have some details of active players in each of the grading bands
If you have the necessary spreadsheet skills to analyse it, the ECF makes available a download of the grading results featuring both grade and number of games played.
This information used to be readily available (possibly via the SCCU Website & the late Richard Haddrell) without having to analyse it yourself. I had rather hoped that this was still around.

Brian Valentine
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Re: New Grade/Age Categories

Post by Brian Valentine » Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:01 pm

This is the information Neil asked for. This based on all players category A-E included in the January list. The first column is the lowest grade in the group. The first and last are <100 and >190
Row #
90 2404
100 819
110 918
120 971
130 980
140 829
150 813
160 672
170 571
180 1441
Grand Total 10418

David Robertson
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Re: New Grade/Age Categories

Post by David Robertson » Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:59 am

Brian Valentine wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:01 pm
This is the information Neil asked for. This based on all players category A-E included in the January list. The first column is the lowest grade in the group. The first and last are <100 and >190
Row #
90 2404
100 819
110 918
120 971
130 980
140 829
150 813
160 672
170 571
180 1441
Grand Total 10418
Thanks for this, Brian. One further request, please, if it's not too burdensome: can you 'unpack' that [180 1441] into grade deciles, 190 through to, say, 230+?

Brian Valentine
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Re: New Grade/Age Categories

Post by Brian Valentine » Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:16 pm

I'm glad I kept my working!

Row #
180 429
190 302
200 196
210 147
220 91
230+ 276
Grand Total 1441

Nick Grey
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Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2011 12:16 am

Re: New Grade/Age Categories

Post by Nick Grey » Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:20 pm

Ok Brian - the 1997-98 SCCU bulletin as enough issues with National Grading list and a leaver in the BCF office. So what is the first list after that we can go back to.

The archives from RJH are on the new SCCU site. So I'm Ok for some research and being reminded of RJH's sarcasm and humour on BCF and ECF.

Nick Grey
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Re: New Grade/Age Categories

Post by Nick Grey » Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:32 pm

LIST TO BE REPRINTED
29.8.00, updated 31.8.00
It's official. The BCF are to print a revised and definitive version of the List, with more people (and the 1999 games) in. A large number of events previously omitted will be included. Expected publication date 18th September. The Director has confirmed that people who bought the old list will get a replacement free of charge. Automatically if they purchased through the Office, and on request if they purchased elsewhere.

PROGRESS REPORT
26.8.00
Seventy-odd people, mostly graders, received the CD material by email this morning. It was thought, at the time, to be final. However, the Director still has some events he wishes to include. The only ones we know of from the SCCU are the North Circular League and some of Surrey. Yorkshire are in tbe pipeline, having presumably failed to process first time round. Northumberland are saying this is the third year running their grading hasn't gone in. We're not sure how much longer the final version is expected to take, and we still don't know which list is going to be definitive.
The printed list (grades A - E) should clearly have been bigger. Given the CD data we've got now, it would be something over 11800 names compared with the actual 10400. Dave Ledger has rather more than doubled his grade, but our sampling hasn't gone much further than that.

LIST HAS SERIOUS OMISSIONS
19.8.00, updated 21.8.00
Your Webmaster unexpectedly got a copy in the post yesterday morning. As a Grader, presumably. Thanks, BCF, and he's not complaining, but he'd have been happy with it by email. Must have cost a packet if they've posted it to all of the 100-odd graders.
Can't say we like the bilious cover, but otherwise the presentation is hard to fault. Standard and Rapid grades are not, after all, in separate lists. They're all very readably on one line.
Unfortunately, the good news stops there. The List is considerably smaller than previous ones. About 10400 names, compared with something like 13 or 14 thousand last time. The shortfall cannot be entirely due to the excision of duplicate names. It is presumably something to do with the various omissions.
We hear, from a Yorkshire correspondent, that no one's in from Yorkshire. This seemed to surprise him, as well as us. It isn't a Yorkshire declaration of independence; the YCA grader says he sent his results. The content of the List has also been severely criticised, on grounds of completeness and accuracy, by another commentator who was so offensive about it, though not to the SCCU, that we've forgotten his name on purpose. He was substantially right. There were always going to be omissions, especially in a List produced under such time pressure, but one has come to light which is very serious.
Events omitted:
(a) The List does not contain a list of events graded. However, some events were omitted because not received, and others because received very late in July. The late ones will no doubt be on the CD.
(b) Some - the Director has found at least 35 - were omitted because the grader forgot to give the time controls. This prevents a file from processing.
(c) It appears that events played in 1999, which means June to December, were accidentally omitted from the calculations. This is why the incidence of A grades is so implausibly low. It's something to do with the twice-yearly cycle which (in theory) applied last year. A few events may have escaped this mishap, and we guess that winter leagues are OK if the grader simply dated them 1.1.00 as graders will.
Or maybe it isn't quite as bad as that. It's possible - investigations continue - that 1999 games went in as "previous-season" ones. This would mess up the grade categories, but not the grades themselves to quite the same extent.
The information is not lost, at any rate. The CD, expected in a few days, will correct this error and others. (If you're wondering, Dave Ledger's grade of 107 is due to the grader who put "77 games, 1500 points" when he meant 7 games.)

We do not know which list will be official, nor what the BCF will do about lists already sold if they're irredeemable.

IT'S OUT
11.8.00
The List went on sale at the British this morning. Thank you John Philpott for this information. We understand that it may not be in quite the polished form the Director would have wished, but we congratulate him on making the British against considerable odds. It remains unclear to what extent the full CD version, not yet published, will be different. We still have neither price nor publication date for it.
We've never said, and neither has the BCF as far as we know, but there are official plans for a Junior half-year list in February. Don't know how it would be published. Things are in flux, and we can't be sure it will happen.

Neil Graham
Posts: 1074
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:36 pm

Re: New Grade/Age Categories

Post by Neil Graham » Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:12 pm

Brian Valentine wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:01 pm
This is the information Neil asked for. This based on all players category A-E included in the January list. The first column is the lowest grade in the group. The first and last are <100 and >190
Row #
90 2404
100 819
110 918
120 971
130 980
140 829
150 813
160 672
170 571
180 1441
Grand Total 10418
Can I echo David's thanks below.

Nick Grey
Posts: 749
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2011 12:16 am

Re: New Grade/Age Categories

Post by Nick Grey » Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:05 pm

Info is great. I believe the numbers have fallen in the last 20-15-10-5 years, even if the number of half-games are up.
Congratulations to those attracting international players to play chess in this country, as well as those attracting players to their clubs, leagues, tournaments, unions, counties etc.

David Robertson
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Re: New Grade/Age Categories

Post by David Robertson » Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:06 pm

Brian Valentine wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:16 pm
I'm glad I kept my working!

Row #
180 429
190 302
200 196
210 147
220 91
230+ 276
Grand Total 1441
Indeed. I'm grateful you kept your working too - and for the extra effort. But I'm now perplexed. Are there really 276 players (of 10418 active players) graded 230+? When I interrogate the ECF database, I find only 44 players graded 230+, one of whom is Richard Bates of the parish (#43); and a mere 30 (not 91) graded 220-229. And so forth. Indeed, player #100 is graded 215

Clearly I'm missing something obvious. Or something obvious is missing

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IM Jack Rudd
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Location: Bideford

Re: New Grade/Age Categories

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:09 pm

David Robertson wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:06 pm
Are there really 276 players (of 10418 active players) graded 230+? When I interrogate the ECF database, I find only 44 players graded 230+, one of whom is Richard Bates of the parish (#43); and a mere 30 (not 91) graded 220-229. And so forth. Indeed, player #100 is graded 215

Clearly I'm missing something obvious. Or something obvious is missing
Your numbers are correct when looking at ENG players only. When looking at all players, player #100 is graded 255.

(There are a lot of foreign players with very high grades based on Gibraltar and the Isle of Man.)

David Robertson
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Re: New Grade/Age Categories

Post by David Robertson » Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:22 pm

IM Jack Rudd wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:09 pm
Your numbers are correct when looking at ENG players only. When looking at all players, player #100 is graded 255. (There are a lot of foreign players with very high grades based on Gibraltar and the Isle of Man.)
Right. Thanks for that clarification. It explains (I think) my incredulity that we (ie ENG) have so many players 230+. At these very high levels, Brian's information is junk in respect of ENG players, the subject of our interest here. So....over to Brian

Paul Cooksey
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Re: New Grade/Age Categories

Post by Paul Cooksey » Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:50 pm

David Robertson wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:06 pm
I find only 44 players graded 230+, one of whom is Richard Bates of the parish (#43)
I'm pretty sure it is being in the top 50 that counts, and that I can get Jonathan Rogers to agree...

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