New Grade/Age Categories

General discussions about grading.
Nick Grey
Posts: 890
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2011 12:16 am

Re: New Grade/Age Categories

Post by Nick Grey » Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:36 am

Some of us are very interested in the top players on the list for all. Gives lots of opportunities in the UK?
Has there ever been a 300+?
And London Chess Classic and Grand Tour here too - so well done those that organise these events, and get the players in.

Quite happy for a top-100 ENG. Would not want to exclude members of this forum and the talent in English Junior Squad, and their coaches, and team management.

Brian Valentine
Posts: 381
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2009 1:30 pm

Re: New Grade/Age Categories

Post by Brian Valentine » Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:50 am

David Robertson wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:22 pm
IM Jack Rudd wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:09 pm
Your numbers are correct when looking at ENG players only. When looking at all players, player #100 is graded 255. (There are a lot of foreign players with very high grades based on Gibraltar and the Isle of Man.)
Right. Thanks for that clarification. It explains (I think) my incredulity that we (ie ENG) have so many players 230+. At these very high levels, Brian's information is junk in respect of ENG players, the subject of our interest here. So....over to Brian
David,

I'm prepared to provide useful information especially if I can gather it easily. The numbers provided required little effort as they are there to audit the process. The audit is not dependent on nationality. You already have the top 100 ENG players available on the website. If you think it justifies the effort, I'll put it on my list.

Brian

Brian Towers
Posts: 1119
Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2014 7:23 pm

Re: New Grade/Age Categories

Post by Brian Towers » Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:49 pm

Angus French wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:30 am
Some stats from the January 2018 master list:
I'll look at the 3rd and 5th columns of your first table and compare them with FIDE stats both for ENG and across federations.

Column 3 is the counts for players of different ages having played at least one standard or rapid game and column 5 is the same for female players.
Rather than break down by decade I'm going to combine them and look at U20, 20 to 49 and 50+ because the data suggests that players are very enthusiastic up to 20. Then most of them give. Slowly the men come back but never to junior levels. Women just gradually lose interest.

So, the ECF data looks like this -
All Players
U20 - 7498 / 18808 = 39.9%
20 - 49 - 3104 / 18808 = 16.5%
S50 - 4289 / 18808 = 22.8%
No DoB - 3917 / 18808 = 20.8%

Females
U20 - 1231 / 1544 = 79.7%
20 - 49 - 131 / 1544 = 8.5%
S50 - 73 / 1544 = 4.7%
No DoB - 109 / 1544 = 7%

The FIDE data, using counts for active players, looks like this -
All players
U20 - 1591 / 5491 = 29%
20 - 49 - 1768 / 5491 = 32.2%
S50 - 1952 / 5491 = 35.5%
No DoB - 180 / 5491 = 3.3%

Females
U20 - 248 / 415 = 59.8%
20 - 49 - 96 / 415 = 23.1%
S50 - 60 / 415 = 14.4%
No DoB - 11 / 415 = 2.7%

The differences aren't that surprising. The ECF grades lots of junior competitions for weak players who are likely to make lots of illegal moves. The FIDE rules aren't really appropriate for that level of player and they don't play FIDE chess until they get much stronger. Result: the FIDE U20 percentages are much lower than the ECF ones and the older categories are correspondingly higher.

The question is, how do other federations compare?
Ah, but I was so much older then. I'm younger than that now.

Brian Towers
Posts: 1119
Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2014 7:23 pm

Re: New Grade/Age Categories

Post by Brian Towers » Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:56 pm

Here are the percentage of active players split into U20, 20-49 and S50 for federations with at least 1000 active players from the latest list.
The crisi group from the ECF viewpoint is the 20-49 group so it is sorted by that value.
As you can see England is mid table. Whatever problems it has it has lots of company.

PercentJuniors ActivePlayerCountU20 PercentMiddles ActivePlayerCount20to49 PercentSeniors ActivePlayerCountS50 PercentNoDoB Fed

13.793103448275 224 80.233990147783 1303 5.788177339901 94 0.184729064041 Saudi Arabia
26.736324523663 435 56.914566687154 926 16.226183159188 264 0.122925629995 Cuba
23.736600306278 310 55.742725880551 728 3.062787136294 40 17.457886676877 Zambia
41.604938271604 674 54.259259259259 879 1.604938271604 26 2.530864197533 Kenya
25.662376987130 1356 50.738077214231 2681 11.506434519303 608 12.093111279336 Egypt
22.699757869249 750 48.123486682808 1590 6.628329297820 219 22.548426150123 Bangladesh
41.231390360837 1634 46.101438304314 1827 8.427958617209 334 4.239212717640 Mexico
39.673321234119 1093 46.098003629764 1270 6.678765880217 184 7.549909255900 Algeria
42.052416609938 4942 45.736895847515 5375 11.734172906739 1379 0.476514635808 Brazil
41.738119459380 2872 44.150559511698 3038 14.111321028920 971 0.000000000000 Colombia
13.177570093457 282 43.364485981308 928 8.130841121495 174 35.327102803740 Dominican Republic
45.884846344048 1299 42.069939950547 1191 8.760155422112 248 3.285058283293 South Africa
39.497827136648 818 41.863833896668 867 8.691453404152 180 9.946885562532 Nepal
29.050279329608 1300 41.608938547486 1862 29.094972067039 1302 0.245810055867 Norway
27.611342518423 3447 40.932393463633 5110 31.159884652355 3890 0.296379365589 United States
22.369156267461 1201 40.733842428757 2187 36.897001303780 1981 0.000000000000 Belgium
24.679487179487 308 40.544871794871 506 17.948717948717 224 16.826923076925 Iraq
42.200630252100 1607 40.152310924369 1529 11.659663865546 444 5.987394957985 Chile
18.672566371681 211 39.823008849557 450 38.849557522123 439 2.654867256639 Ireland
8.274319791278 444 37.942601565411 2036 53.745806932538 2884 0.037271710773 Netherlands
34.000000000000 646 37.842105263157 719 20.421052631578 388 7.736842105265 Indonesia
49.520766773162 2480 37.659744408945 1886 12.500000000000 626 0.319488817893 Portugal
16.126543209876 209 37.500000000000 486 46.373456790123 601 0.000000000000 Finland
37.658510005944 15205 37.234991083812 15034 24.299088567465 9811 0.807410342779 Spain
25.050820953870 1602 36.591086786551 2340 15.308835027365 979 23.049257232214 Argentina
43.325339728217 542 35.571542765787 445 11.590727418065 145 9.512390087931 Morocco
34.586850856996 2704 35.507802507035 2776 29.892555640828 2337 0.012790995141 Hungary
55.587392550143 582 35.339063992359 370 8.118433619866 85 0.955109837632 Armenia
29.293420157449 3014 34.775002429779 3578 35.805228885217 3684 0.126348527555 Czech Republic
19.294178258629 4494 34.702902284046 8083 45.891293147861 10689 0.111626309464 Germany
49.688709406023 2953 34.578495709237 2055 14.958775029446 889 0.774019855294 FIDE
34.372514712899 2161 34.467949737553 2167 31.143629712104 1958 0.015905837444 Slovakia
46.671413314346 2622 34.336062655749 1929 10.929156283374 614 8.063367746531 Venezuela
18.690364826941 999 33.638914873713 1798 47.221702525724 2524 0.449017773622 Austria
42.105026526391 18730 33.394029313910 14855 24.368312202140 10840 0.132631957559 France
25.266545966606 1256 33.011466505733 1641 41.520820760410 2064 0.201166767251 Sweden
44.491274513218 12773 32.829426312306 9425 8.091539238566 2323 14.587759935910 Iran
28.974685849572 1591 32.198142414860 1768 35.549080313239 1952 3.278091422329 England
23.968088796392 691 31.737773152965 915 9.295872355185 268 34.998265695458 Philippines
22.068965517241 1536 31.594827586206 2199 46.336206896551 3225 0.000000000000 Serbia
15.228093206432 464 31.309484739087 954 50.968165408598 1553 2.494256645883 Switzerland
37.514450867052 649 31.156069364161 539 30.751445086705 532 0.578034682082 Iceland
61.333245177606 37106 30.759186102249 18609 4.733962544835 2864 3.173606175310 India
43.623773802654 756 30.755914598961 533 10.213502596653 177 15.406809001732 Tunisia
35.729094678645 1034 30.545957152729 884 22.356599861782 647 11.368348306844 Australia
64.028958136606 20342 30.491029272898 9687 3.673276676109 1167 1.806735914387 Turkey
53.661196227032 9842 30.396379695763 5575 15.686167602638 2877 0.256256474567 Poland
44.463742943986 4096 30.210594876248 2783 24.337820234476 2242 0.987841945290 Ukraine
23.570019723865 239 29.980276134122 304 6.508875739644 66 39.940828402369 Jordan
41.493009759957 1573 29.754682141915 1128 28.198364547612 1069 0.553943550516 Israel
25.743099787685 485 29.511677282377 556 43.312101910828 816 1.433121019110 Bosnia Herzegovina
44.394986529225 7580 28.704462926086 4901 26.847838819257 4584 0.052711725432 Italy
25.130499627143 674 28.523489932885 765 13.422818791946 360 32.923191648026 Canada
11.775395238960 648 28.148282754860 1549 59.876431037615 3295 0.199890968565 Denmark
55.044890979050 10300 27.971355280034 5234 8.224668661821 1539 8.759085079095 Greece
44.004639698419 3035 25.663331883427 1770 30.274032187907 2088 0.057996230247 Croatia
47.337770382695 1707 25.069328896283 904 25.651691625069 925 1.941209095953 Slovenia
54.857142857142 1056 24.883116883116 479 5.558441558441 107 14.701298701301 Costa Rica
58.432934926958 1320 24.524125719344 554 3.364320495794 76 13.678618857904 China
56.168728195369 1771 23.755153821757 749 19.568664763717 617 0.507453219157 Lithuania
45.735524256651 1169 23.474178403755 600 1.721439749608 44 29.068857589986 Ecuador
62.929745889387 1263 23.119083208769 464 9.765819631290 196 4.185351270554 Georgia
62.487976915678 3898 23.036229560756 1437 14.299454953510 892 0.176338570056 Romania
67.583643122676 909 22.007434944237 296 10.334572490706 139 0.074349442381 Uzbekistan
71.763019589106 1502 21.500238891543 450 3.726708074534 78 3.010033444817 Vietnam
56.964553170244 1141 21.417873190214 429 20.768846729905 416 0.848726909637 Latvia
25.621890547263 412 20.398009950248 328 0.621890547263 10 53.358208955226 Botswana
67.182038182307 4997 20.301156224791 1510 2.393116429147 178 10.123689163755 Malaysia
52.825836216839 2290 20.253748558246 878 4.359861591695 189 22.560553633220 Peru
72.716488730723 1839 19.968366943455 505 3.084223013048 78 4.230921312774 Singapore
56.450351837372 722 19.311962470680 247 17.748240813135 227 6.489444878813 Estonia
61.285609934258 839 18.334550766983 251 8.765522279035 120 11.614317019724 Belarus
65.408243633499 37371 18.100988885971 10342 15.746915200840 8997 0.743852279690 Russia
75.229960578186 1145 17.936925098554 273 6.833114323258 104 0.000000000000 Kyrgyzstan
66.200762388818 2605 17.611181702668 693 10.571791613722 416 5.616264294792 Kazakhstan
76.334180432020 2403 16.899618805590 532 3.939008894536 124 2.827191867854 Azerbaijan
76.064069108251 8453 15.468370377035 1719 1.160802663547 129 7.306757851167 Sri Lanka
67.426160337552 1598 15.021097046413 356 2.911392405063 69 14.641350210972 Bolivia
53.064133016627 1117 11.923990498812 251 0.855106888361 18 34.156769596200 United Arab Emirates
79.648241206030 1268 11.432160804020 182 8.856783919597 141 0.062814070353 Mongolia
Last edited by Brian Towers on Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
Ah, but I was so much older then. I'm younger than that now.

Brian Towers
Posts: 1119
Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2014 7:23 pm

Re: New Grade/Age Categories

Post by Brian Towers » Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:17 pm

Same again but for Female data
England just below mid table, immediately below Sweden - Pia Cramling country - so in good company.

PercentJuniors ActiveFemaleCountU20 PercentMiddles ActiveFemaleCount20to49 PercentSeniors ActiveFemaleCountS50 PercentNoDoB Fed
36.645962732919 59 61.490683229813 99 1.863354037267 3 0.000000000000 Saudi Arabia
18.686868686868 37 54.545454545454 108 1.515151515151 3 25.252525252527 Dominican Republic
51.549295774647 183 46.197183098591 164 0.563380281690 2 1.690140845072 Kenya
50.000000000000 155 45.483870967741 141 4.516129032258 14 0.000000000000 Cuba
51.216022889842 358 45.207439198855 316 1.287553648068 9 2.288984263235 Mexico
33.969465648854 89 45.038167938931 118 20.992366412213 55 0.000000000000 Netherlands
42.842587875700 1682 40.855832908813 1604 3.234844625573 127 13.066734589914 Iran
41.393442622950 202 40.778688524590 199 3.073770491803 15 14.754098360657 Egypt
51.263001485884 345 38.335809806835 258 10.401188707280 70 0.000000000000 Serbia
41.870503597122 873 37.889688249400 790 20.047961630695 418 0.191846522783 Germany
44.370860927152 67 37.748344370860 57 3.973509933774 6 13.907284768214 Iraq
54.205607476635 116 37.383177570093 80 7.943925233644 17 0.467289719628 Norway
43.119266055045 47 36.697247706422 40 4.587155963302 5 15.596330275231 Jordan
44.854881266490 170 36.675461741424 139 18.469656992084 70 0.000000000000 Belgium
48.137535816618 168 35.816618911174 125 15.759312320916 55 0.286532951292 Austria
61.997019374068 832 35.692995529061 479 2.309985096870 31 0.000000000000 Colombia
35.570469798657 53 35.570469798657 53 28.187919463087 42 0.671140939599 Denmark
59.859154929577 85 35.211267605633 50 0.000000000000 0 4.929577464790 Zambia
59.485530546623 555 34.512325830653 322 6.002143622722 56 0.000000000000 Hungary
57.823129251700 85 33.333333333333 49 8.843537414965 13 0.000000000000 Bosnia Herzegovina
64.514712340799 1469 33.289415898111 758 2.151954325867 49 0.043917435223 Brazil
56.802244039270 405 32.959326788218 235 9.817671809256 70 0.420757363256 Czech Republic
47.507331378299 162 32.551319648093 111 4.692082111436 16 15.249266862172 Argentina
62.311557788944 124 31.658291457286 63 0.000000000000 0 6.030150753770 Botswana
46.620046620046 200 31.468531468531 135 0.932400932400 4 20.979020979023 Philippines
56.896551724137 33 31.034482758620 18 12.068965517241 7 0.000000000000 Finland
54.873294346978 3378 30.360623781676 1869 14.668615984405 903 0.097465886941 France
59.627329192546 576 30.331262939958 293 9.834368530020 95 0.207039337476 United States
63.529411764705 108 29.411764705882 50 6.470588235294 11 0.588235294119 Armenia
57.512116316639 356 29.402261712439 182 1.938610662358 12 11.147011308564 China
67.769784172661 471 29.352517985611 204 2.877697841726 20 0.000000000000 Portugal
40.116279069767 69 29.069767441860 50 26.744186046511 46 4.069767441862 Switzerland
63.667232597623 750 28.862478777589 340 6.196943972835 73 1.273344651953 Ukraine
66.000000000000 99 28.666666666666 43 4.666666666666 7 0.666666666668 Iceland
44.897959183673 22 28.571428571428 14 24.489795918367 12 2.040816326532 Ireland
69.780219780219 127 28.021978021978 51 1.648351648351 3 0.549450549452 Nepal
68.455284552845 421 27.967479674796 172 3.577235772357 22 0.000000000000 Slovakia
63.854425144747 2316 27.901847256685 1012 7.361455748552 267 0.882271850016 Spain
63.897131552917 646 27.695351137487 280 2.670623145400 27 5.736894164196 Venezuela
70.192307692307 365 27.307692307692 142 1.153846153846 6 1.346153846155 Chile
66.529774127310 324 27.104722792607 132 3.696098562628 18 2.669404517455 South Africa
68.370607028753 214 25.559105431309 80 1.916932907348 6 4.153354632590 Indonesia
65.797788309636 2499 25.144813059505 955 3.949447077409 150 5.107951553450 Greece
50.798258345428 350 24.963715529753 172 0.000000000000 0 24.238026124819 Ecuador
70.866141732283 2430 24.817731116943 851 4.111986001749 141 0.204141149025 Poland
63.782051282051 199 23.397435897435 73 11.858974358974 37 0.961538461540 Sweden
59.759036144578 248 23.132530120481 96 14.457831325301 60 2.650602409640 England
50.174216027874 144 22.996515679442 66 3.135888501742 9 23.693379790942 Bangladesh
66.821345707656 288 22.737819025522 98 0.464037122969 2 9.976798143853 Costa Rica
69.178082191780 303 22.602739726027 99 7.077625570776 31 1.141552511417 Slovenia
63.070539419087 152 21.991701244813 53 14.937759336099 36 0.000000000000 Israel
63.492063492063 120 21.693121693121 41 4.232804232804 8 10.582010582012 Canada
67.187500000000 387 21.527777777777 124 11.111111111111 64 0.173611111112 Lithuania
73.536895674300 289 21.119592875318 83 0.763358778625 3 4.580152671757 Algeria
76.096491228070 347 20.394736842105 93 1.096491228070 5 2.412280701755 Singapore
65.338645418326 164 20.318725099601 51 8.366533864541 21 5.976095617532 Australia
78.514227295961 4608 20.241949224740 1188 0.954165956721 56 0.289657522578 Turkey
73.325499412455 624 20.211515863689 172 5.287896592244 45 1.175088131612 FIDE
76.218611521418 516 19.793205317577 134 0.886262924667 6 3.101920236338 Vietnam
78.656126482213 199 19.367588932806 49 1.976284584980 5 0.000000000000 Uzbekistan
72.920696324951 377 19.342359767891 100 4.835589941972 25 2.901353965186 Georgia
75.557917109458 711 19.341126461211 182 5.100956429330 48 0.000000000000 Croatia
70.416666666666 169 17.916666666666 43 2.083333333333 5 9.583333333335 Belarus
74.895202608290 1608 17.885421518397 384 7.172799254774 154 0.046576618539 Italy
80.425136724796 7794 17.397585388504 1686 1.207305747600 117 0.969972139100 India
76.000000000000 152 17.000000000000 34 2.500000000000 5 4.500000000000 Tunisia
77.588943878980 8309 15.846484265571 1697 5.994957512372 642 0.569614343077 Russia
78.664192949907 2968 15.716936125099 593 1.086668433607 41 4.532202491387 Sri Lanka
78.256658595641 1616 15.447941888619 319 0.823244552058 17 5.472154963682 Malaysia
69.354838709677 172 15.322580645161 38 9.677419354838 24 5.645161290324 Estonia
81.021897810218 111 14.598540145985 20 2.919708029197 4 1.459854014600 Morocco
81.794871794871 957 14.529914529914 170 3.504273504273 41 0.170940170942 Romania
83.928571428571 564 13.988095238095 94 0.744047619047 5 1.339285714287 Azerbaijan
76.615384615384 498 13.846153846153 90 5.230769230769 34 4.307692307694 Kazakhstan
75.138121546961 272 12.707182320441 46 12.154696132596 44 0.000000000000 Latvia
73.062730627306 594 12.546125461254 102 0.492004920049 4 13.899138991391 Peru
62.938005390835 467 9.838274932614 73 0.134770889487 1 27.088948787064 United Arab Emirates
89.090909090909 245 9.818181818181 27 1.090909090909 3 0.000000000000 Kyrgyzstan
85.875706214689 456 9.416195856873 50 0.564971751412 3 4.143126177026 Bolivia
88.445078459343 620 8.131241084165 57 3.423680456490 24 0.000000000000 Mongolia
Ah, but I was so much older then. I'm younger than that now.

Roger de Coverly
Posts: 17244
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:51 pm

Re: New Grade/Age Categories

Post by Roger de Coverly » Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:25 pm

Brian Towers wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:17 pm
England just below mid table, immediately below Sweden - Pia Cramling country - so in good company.
.

Rather than the Kirsan/Agon fantasy of the number of chess players, perhaps FIDE should look more closely at its own data, namely the mix of active players as defined by players with FIDE ratings. That's elite after a fashion with the minimum rating of 1000.

You could wonder what the stats are for players exclusively playing online. I doubt that dates of birth would be collected

John Upham
Posts: 4125
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 10:29 am
Location: Cove, Hampshire, England.
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Re: New Grade/Age Categories

Post by John Upham » Wed Oct 17, 2018 11:43 am

Michael Farthing wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:41 pm
Thanks Angus.
I have sent an Email requesting that if my date of birth is held it should be removed.
Will you be doing the same for the national registry of births which is easily accessed by any member of the public ?

Try using ancestry.co.uk for example.

Oh and there is HMRC, DVLA and other institutions to take care of.

J.

Nick Grey
Posts: 890
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2011 12:16 am

Re: New Grade/Age Categories

Post by Nick Grey » Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:09 pm

Gdpr since May ought to stop all this.

I suggest get information deleted - because it is making fraud & worse so easy for hackers everywhere.

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