What are the safeguards ?

General discussions about grading.
John Upham
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What are the safeguards ?

Post by John Upham » Mon Feb 04, 2019 8:05 pm

What checks, balances and safeguards in place to mitigate the chances of someone (a Club Secretary for example) submitting results of so-called internal club games that either did not take place or did not take place under ECF match conditions ?
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Roger de Coverly
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Re: What are the safeguards ?

Post by Roger de Coverly » Mon Feb 04, 2019 8:11 pm

John Upham wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 8:05 pm
What checks, balances and safeguards in place to mitigate the chances of someone (a Club Secretary for example) submitting results of so-called internal club games that either did not take place or did not take place under ECF match conditions ?
Integrity of graders.
A visible record of all results which contributed to grades on the ECF website.

John Upham
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Re: What are the safeguards ?

Post by John Upham » Mon Feb 04, 2019 8:17 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 8:11 pm
John Upham wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 8:05 pm
What checks, balances and safeguards in place to mitigate the chances of someone (a Club Secretary for example) submitting results of so-called internal club games that either did not take place or did not take place under ECF match conditions ?
Integrity of graders.
A visible record of all results which contributed to grades on the ECF website.
Where may I find "A visible record of all results which contributed to grades on the ECF website" ?

How do I find out which grader submitted a particular crop of results ?
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Roger de Coverly
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Re: What are the safeguards ?

Post by Roger de Coverly » Mon Feb 04, 2019 8:25 pm

John Upham wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 8:17 pm

Where may I find "A visible record of all results which contributed to grades on the ECF website" ?


www.ecfgrading.org.uk

look up a player and click "games" on the top right

It tells me you lost a game to a Gary Sharp on 20th October 2018 in the "U140 Ebony".
John Upham wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 8:17 pm
How do I find out which grader submitted a particular crop of results ?
Graders are likely to be named as county or league officials on the relevant websites. I'm not sure if there's a consolidated list anywhere public. The ECF's central grading administrator would know who they are.

I think the voting register for ECF Council gives a cross reference between set of results and organisation submitting the results.

John Upham
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Re: What are the safeguards ?

Post by John Upham » Mon Feb 04, 2019 8:32 pm

Thanks ! I did not realise that the "Games" link had returned.
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Nick Grey
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Re: What are the safeguards ?

Post by Nick Grey » Mon Feb 04, 2019 8:50 pm

On safeguards I'm concerned on date of birth is identity theft so I'm going after anyone that discloses that when I have indicated not.
Images - announcement before.
I made to clubs also.
So if you have any links going through sites such as facebook etc I'll be coming after those for damages that I have already made a disclosure not to use.

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Michael Farthing
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Re: What are the safeguards ?

Post by Michael Farthing » Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:22 am

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 8:25 pm
I think the voting register for ECF Council gives a cross reference between set of results and organisation submitting the results.
It attempts to but I have to admit that the voting register remains something of a "dark art". One reason for the more detailed publication has been to give organisations the opportunity to notify any misallocations. In any case, this does not help with the question of which graders have submitted which results: some graders submit for more than one organisation and some organisations submit through more than one grader and there is no health in it.
The same applies to treasurers.

Michael Flatt
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Re: What are the safeguards ?

Post by Michael Flatt » Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:43 am

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 8:11 pm
John Upham wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 8:05 pm
What checks, balances and safeguards in place to mitigate the chances of someone (a Club Secretary for example) submitting results of so-called internal club games that either did not take place or did not take place under ECF match conditions ?
Integrity of graders.
A visible record of all results which contributed to grades on the ECF website.
All events that have submitted games for grading are listed.
See: https://www.ecfgrading.org.uk/new/menu. ... s_received&

[The bookmark function on the ECF grading website doesn't seem to work correctly. It is quite annoying not being able to directly copy the url of the page being viewed.]

If you have concerns about any event not submitting correct results it would be best to raise your concerns with the ECF Grading manager, whom I am sure would investigate.

Roger Lancaster
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Re: What are the safeguards ?

Post by Roger Lancaster » Tue Feb 05, 2019 1:11 pm

It's a Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? situation. Ultimately, one would need one grader to verify another's input which probably isn't practical and, on the basis of past experience, is probably unnecessary. Mind you, a similar philosophy resulted in Dr Harold Shipman so we shouldn't be complacent.

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Michael Farthing
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Re: What are the safeguards ?

Post by Michael Farthing » Tue Feb 05, 2019 1:16 pm

There was slightly more at stake in the case of Dr Shipman!

Kevin Thurlow
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Re: What are the safeguards ?

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Tue Feb 05, 2019 1:43 pm

There was a case some years ago where a lowly graded player was puzzled that his grade had rocketed. On enquiry, the BCF grader discovered that the player had apparently won many games against a much higher graded member of his club, who won a lot of grading restricted events... A quick recalculation was carried out and the guy who submitted the results was told off somewhat. The higher graded player was banned at some point, but I cannot recall if this were the cause.

The graders do have a difficult job!

David Sedgwick
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Re: What are the safeguards ?

Post by David Sedgwick » Tue Feb 05, 2019 4:47 pm

Michael Flatt wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:43 am
The bookmark function on the ECF grading website doesn't seem to work correctly. It is quite annoying not being able to directly copy the url of the page being viewed.
For some obscure reason the function was deliberately decommissioned a few years ago. It is indeed annoying.

Colin Purdon
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Re: What are the safeguards ?

Post by Colin Purdon » Tue Feb 05, 2019 5:24 pm

David Sedgwick wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 4:47 pm
Michael Flatt wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:43 am
The bookmark function on the ECF grading website doesn't seem to work correctly. It is quite annoying not being able to directly copy the url of the page being viewed.
For some obscure reason the function was deliberately decommissioned a few years ago. It is indeed annoying.
I believe that the bookmark function still works OK, but it places the required url in the browser's address bar, from which it can be copied, rather than directly into the copy/paste buffer (which I think it used to do).

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: What are the safeguards ?

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Tue Feb 05, 2019 5:47 pm

You can still bookmark some pages, but not all.

In the left-hand menu is a link titled 'bookmark'. If you click this, an URL appears in the browser's address bar, rather than displaying the php URL (someone else will have to explain how php works, something about websites being generated dynamically using elements pulled together from a database, rather than a static page that can be linked to). Some people may never have realised this option was available, having always relied on copying the URL from the browser's address bar.

The link to my grading record:

https://www.ecfgrading.org.uk/new/menu. ... de=155285F

That is still a 'php' URL, but with elements added to tell the database what to generate when creating the webpage.

However, if you go to the pages in the sidebar (e.g. 'Site History', 'Events Received', etc.) and try and click to get a bookmark for this, the function does indeed fail. I haven't found a work around yet, though one may exist.

Home:
https://www.ecfgrading.org.uk/new/menu.php?file=home
Help:
https://www.ecfgrading.org.uk/new/menu.php?file=help

The others can be seen in the page source:

"top_players"
"glist","revised=1"
"events_received"
"contact();"
"xtable"
"site_history"
"help"
"downloads"

But there is some problem, maybe with the URL syntax.

Jon Griffith
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Re: What are the safeguards ?

Post by Jon Griffith » Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:13 am

Thanks to Chrisopher for his explanation of how the Bookmark command works.
This feature has been unchanged for a couple of years, and there are no plans to change things. However in the light comments in this thead I will review the Bookmark procedure to see if it can be made functional for more web pages
Jon Griffith
Yorkshire Grader

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