July 2019 grades......

General discussions about grading.
Neil Graham
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Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:36 pm

Re: July 2019 grades......

Post by Neil Graham » Fri Jul 26, 2019 9:32 pm

Mick Norris wrote:
Fri Jul 26, 2019 2:33 pm
Jonathan Rogers wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 10:42 am
Have only just noticed this. No real surprises to my eye so maybe the tumult of ten yeas ago is well over by now; in terms of relative ordering, at least. It still seems to me that most players are some five to ten points higher than would have been expected more than ten years ago. Presumably that is a minor point, and just a new reality to which we can adapt.

Though if Sadler is really 281 then he should be in a position to challenge Magnus Carlsen ...
When did Sadler last lose an ECF graded longplay game?
How about v Julian Hodgson in the 4NCL in 1999? Matthew Sadler's ECF grading results show no results at all between the list of July 2000 and July 2013. The list of July 2014, where graded games are shown, and all subsequent lists show no losses.

Paul Dupré
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Location: Cove, Hampshire

Re: July 2019 grades......

Post by Paul Dupré » Fri Aug 09, 2019 4:34 pm

Mike Gunn wrote:
Tue Jul 23, 2019 11:35 am
Oops, the Surrey foul up is down to me - unaccountably I used a different event code in January to the one I normally use.
So, who's solving this and when?

Oh and shouldn't the software have spotted duplicate results ???

edit. 3 hours later...

Having spent a while today researching this also, I've realised dates and colours are not accurate either, as well as board numbers not being entertained.

Why have we got a grading system with such massive deficiencies in it?

Are we just hoping that the "graders" do their job properly?

I was a grader in the past and am shocked that this is the current situation.
Any postings on here represent the truth, and nothing but the truth, so help me God,
...and by the way the world is flat.

GLOBE LIE UK CONVENTION 2019 (13-15 Sept. 2019 Kidderminster)
Hope to see you there...

Nick Grey
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Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2011 12:16 am

Re: July 2019 grades......

Post by Nick Grey » Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:38 pm

Allow Mike to get the update clear. I expect it will be fine in the AUGUST revision. The basis of our league and county competition start points.
Play a ECF tournament now if you want to use that rating this month.
For implementing monthly when go live I am going to suggest that each club in the league take one month each.
I'll take July on behalf of my club on the basis that the ITC is a member of my club.

Too many players take too much time on worrying about their grades against others.
Everyone will win when implemented. We will all be over 300.

It is nice to be considered to be under-rated.
The middle 'd' in my name is Nick 'danger' Grey. Yeah Baby.

or delboy who plays the dodgiest chess lines in South London. :D

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Michael Farthing
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Re: July 2019 grades......

Post by Michael Farthing » Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:47 pm

Errr... Why should Board Numbers be entertained? What relevance has that to grading?
And how exactly is any software expected to detect that a grader has entered a wrong date or a wrong colour?

I accept that it would be nice to have specific dates rather than a job lot for a batch - but hey - this is done by unpaid volunteers (a job I have just declined to do for one of my leagues because I didn't trust myself to give it the attention it needs)

But to answer the question as to why we have a grading system with such massive deficiencies: it is because the person capable of producing a decent system - Paul Dupré - hasn't stepped up to the mark.

Paul Dupré
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Location: Cove, Hampshire

Re: July 2019 grades......

Post by Paul Dupré » Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:56 pm

Michael Farthing wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:47 pm
Errr... Why should Board Numbers be entertained? What relevance has that to grading?
And how exactly is any software expected to detect that a grader has entered a wrong date or a wrong colour?

I accept that it would be nice to have specific dates rather than a job lot for a batch - but hey - this is done by unpaid volunteers (a job I have just declined to do for one of my leagues because I didn't trust myself to give it the attention it needs)

But to answer the question as to why we have a grading system with such massive deficiencies: it is because the person capable of producing a decent system - Paul Dupré - hasn't stepped up to the mark.
Do you agree that colours are important !!!

For me board numbers would at least be interesting. If information is missing, how do you know it is complete ?
Any postings on here represent the truth, and nothing but the truth, so help me God,
...and by the way the world is flat.

GLOBE LIE UK CONVENTION 2019 (13-15 Sept. 2019 Kidderminster)
Hope to see you there...

Nick Grey
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Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2011 12:16 am

Re: July 2019 grades......

Post by Nick Grey » Fri Aug 09, 2019 10:23 pm

Check yours on the Surrey League website. The results are only input once. I can be dangerous or awful with black or white.

Some oversights with black pieces on black squares on the dodgy lights at our club.

Mike is wanting to step away from grading so the Board will be looking to some volunteers.

Paul Dupré
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Location: Cove, Hampshire

Re: July 2019 grades......

Post by Paul Dupré » Sat Aug 10, 2019 2:30 pm

Nick Grey wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 10:23 pm
Check yours on the Surrey League website.
Don't see them anywhere !!!
Any postings on here represent the truth, and nothing but the truth, so help me God,
...and by the way the world is flat.

GLOBE LIE UK CONVENTION 2019 (13-15 Sept. 2019 Kidderminster)
Hope to see you there...

Nick Grey
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Re: July 2019 grades......

Post by Nick Grey » Sat Aug 10, 2019 8:30 pm

Paul, You know what club you play for.
Click on competitions...
e.g. Beaumont cup. click on the cell v Kingston, you lost with black on board 2.

in the lauder final you also lost with white on board 2 I lost with black on board 4.
The last game to finish went the full session.

Julie Denning
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Joined: Sun Jun 08, 2014 9:07 am

Re: July 2019 grades......

Post by Julie Denning » Sat Aug 10, 2019 9:12 pm


Having spent a while today researching this also, I've realised dates and colours are not accurate either, as well as board numbers not being entertained.

Why have we got a grading system with such massive deficiencies in it?

Are we just hoping that the "graders" do their job properly?

I was a grader in the past and am shocked that this is the current situation.
Paul, I suspect I speak on behalf of a number of graders. I report results not only from my local league but also from several clubs. These come to me in many different forms. Some are perfectly set out with colours and dates included, which I then faithfully report. Others miss out some of this information. At the far extreme I've even had situations of being sent what appeared to be the handwritten crosstable taken off the club notice board. As the system does not demand dates and colours, I submit the best I'm provided with. I suppose I could refuse to submit such results, or try to get the missing data from the club, but as I'm usually then close to the submission deadline and in all probability the club hasn't kept more accurate records, there seems little point. I'm sorry if you regard this as graders not doing their "job" properly.

Mike Gunn
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Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2007 4:45 pm

Re: July 2019 grades......

Post by Mike Gunn » Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:45 am

In relation to the Surrey grading I spoke to Matthew at the British and it turns out that simplest solution for me (remove the January submitted results) was feasible and I saw him do this. Thanks to Nick for offering his help in checking the results but his help has turned out to be not needed.

Nick Grey
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Re: July 2019 grades......

Post by Nick Grey » Sun Aug 11, 2019 1:22 pm

Mike thanks. Simple is best and graders do not get enough praise for their work. Well done to you and Matthew from me.

Paul Dupré
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Location: Cove, Hampshire

Re: July 2019 grades......

Post by Paul Dupré » Sun Aug 11, 2019 2:35 pm

Mike Gunn wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:45 am
In relation to the Surrey grading I spoke to Matthew at the British and it turns out that simplest solution for me (remove the January submitted results) was feasible and I saw him do this.
When will this be shown on the ECF grading database?

It's already been 3 weeks, since it was published !!!
Any postings on here represent the truth, and nothing but the truth, so help me God,
...and by the way the world is flat.

GLOBE LIE UK CONVENTION 2019 (13-15 Sept. 2019 Kidderminster)
Hope to see you there...

Nick Grey
Posts: 1148
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2011 12:16 am

Re: July 2019 grades......

Post by Nick Grey » Sun Aug 11, 2019 4:25 pm

it will be on the August update which is one month after the July list.

You still have time to volunteer to help for the Jan/July 2020 list.

Nick Grey
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Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2011 12:16 am

Re: July 2019 grades......

Post by Nick Grey » Tue Aug 27, 2019 10:19 pm

When will the AUGUST revision be published?

Alex Holowczak
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Re: July 2019 grades......

Post by Alex Holowczak » Wed Aug 28, 2019 11:00 am

Nick Grey wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 10:19 pm
When will the AUGUST revision be published?
In August :)

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