July 2019 grades......

General discussions about grading.
Roger de Coverly
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Re: July 2019 grades......

Post by Roger de Coverly » Mon Sep 02, 2019 10:43 am

Alex Holowczak wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 10:18 am
Some battles aren't worth the time fighting, particularly this one given information like "date" doesn't actually matter for the purpose of calculating the grade.
If the ECF is serious about monthly rating, the date is going to matter.

But perhaps grading or rating is a red herring and what the ECF should look to build is a more comprehensive results archive. I can see where the attitude comes from though. I recall the earlier editions of ChessBase perhaps 30 years ago. A wonderful breakthrough in some ways, but only recorded the year of play, so somewhat less useful than it should have been as a replacement for the transcribed scorebook.

Paul Dupré
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Re: July 2019 grades......

Post by Paul Dupré » Mon Sep 02, 2019 11:12 am

How has my Jan-2019 grade changed now. It's 169D when the ECF Grading Database always said 166D and I can show you the games involved that calculate to 166D. History should not change...
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Paul Dupré
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Re: July 2019 grades......

Post by Paul Dupré » Mon Sep 02, 2019 11:16 am

Oh, I can see now - complete removal of the 4 Surrey games from the database has increased my grade by 3 points.

Is somebody going to fix this ?
Last edited by Paul Dupré on Mon Sep 02, 2019 11:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Alex Holowczak
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Re: July 2019 grades......

Post by Alex Holowczak » Mon Sep 02, 2019 11:16 am

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 10:43 am
Alex Holowczak wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 10:18 am
Some battles aren't worth the time fighting, particularly this one given information like "date" doesn't actually matter for the purpose of calculating the grade.
If the ECF is serious about monthly rating, the date is going to matter.

But perhaps grading or rating is a red herring and what the ECF should look to build is a more comprehensive results archive. I can see where the attitude comes from though. I recall the earlier editions of ChessBase perhaps 30 years ago. A wonderful breakthrough in some ways, but only recorded the year of play, so somewhat less useful than it should have been as a replacement for the transcribed scorebook.
If you are reporting monthly, does it make a big difference if all the games get put in as the first of the month? Of course it should be better and done properly, but is it really worth the ECF going into battle on that point?

Roger de Coverly
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Re: July 2019 grades......

Post by Roger de Coverly » Mon Sep 02, 2019 11:41 am

Alex Holowczak wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 11:16 am


If you are reporting monthly, does it make a big difference if all the games get put in as the first of the month?
I was wondering whether the ECF had in mind a process to put late reported games back into their correct month.

Nick Grey
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Re: July 2019 grades......

Post by Nick Grey » Mon Sep 02, 2019 4:45 pm

Paul, I was not expecting any JAN 2019 changes. Sorry.

As for Surrey many of the changes seem to be +/- 1 - 2. So may affect teams and tournaments for some players.

I am now of the view that ECF should not spend significant resources on any grading system whether monthly or six monthly. I would be happier with a range of grades = annual rating. It is not worth getting significant additional monies or volunteers or increasing annual member fees.

Many of us struggle on memorising our own rating let alone others. Many of us will not want to carry IT with us to avoid any suggestion of cheating.

Paul Dupré
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Re: July 2019 grades......

Post by Paul Dupré » Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:10 pm

Monthly grading is no more difficult than checking the TV channels with your TV remote.

Everybody should just mind their own business.

In other words spend their time on processing entries (for their events), running websites (for their leagues, clubs etc).

....and at the end of the day just press a button on their ECF authorised software, and the grading is done.

There is NO NEED for graders, we are not living in the paper and pencil age any more.

I'm afraid even spreadsheets are a waste of time...
Any postings on here represent the truth, and nothing but the truth, so help me God,
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Nigel White
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Re: July 2019 grades......

Post by Nigel White » Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:25 pm

Nigel White wrote:
Sun Sep 01, 2019 6:03 pm


David Clayton has confirmed that this was an oversight. The tournament has now been registered and the file submitted. David has said that the secretary of the FIDE Qualifications Committee is aware of the situation and will approve the registration. It will then be rated and included on a future September revised list.

Mistakes are unfortunate, but it is good that when people are made aware of them they are dealt with promptly.
I see that the submitted file is now shown on the FIDE ratings website listed under "Tournaments received for October 2019". Does anyone who understands the FIDE rating system better than me know if that means that the results won't be included until the October list is published, rather than in a September update as originally suggested?

LawrenceCooper
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Re: July 2019 grades......

Post by LawrenceCooper » Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:36 pm

Nigel White wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:25 pm
Nigel White wrote:
Sun Sep 01, 2019 6:03 pm


David Clayton has confirmed that this was an oversight. The tournament has now been registered and the file submitted. David has said that the secretary of the FIDE Qualifications Committee is aware of the situation and will approve the registration. It will then be rated and included on a future September revised list.

Mistakes are unfortunate, but it is good that when people are made aware of them they are dealt with promptly.
I see that the submitted file is now shown on the FIDE ratings website listed under "Tournaments received for October 2019". Does anyone who understands the FIDE rating system better than me know if that means that the results won't be included until the October list is published, rather than in a September update as originally suggested?
That would be my understanding, yes.

Alex Holowczak
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Re: July 2019 grades......

Post by Alex Holowczak » Mon Sep 02, 2019 10:04 pm

LawrenceCooper wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:36 pm
Nigel White wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:25 pm
Nigel White wrote:
Sun Sep 01, 2019 6:03 pm


David Clayton has confirmed that this was an oversight. The tournament has now been registered and the file submitted. David has said that the secretary of the FIDE Qualifications Committee is aware of the situation and will approve the registration. It will then be rated and included on a future September revised list.

Mistakes are unfortunate, but it is good that when people are made aware of them they are dealt with promptly.
I see that the submitted file is now shown on the FIDE ratings website listed under "Tournaments received for October 2019". Does anyone who understands the FIDE rating system better than me know if that means that the results won't be included until the October list is published, rather than in a September update as originally suggested?
That would be my understanding, yes.
That's right. Late submissions happen regularly enough for the process to be established, which is that they are rated at the end of the next month.

Paul Buswell
Posts: 401
Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2008 4:56 pm

Re: July 2019 grades......

Post by Paul Buswell » Tue Sep 03, 2019 6:36 am

Alex Holowczak wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 10:18 am


So then the club will just make up dates and colours before they send them off to Julie. This ticks the box so bureaucrats can pat themselves on the back, but it doesn't actually address the underlying issue. Some battles aren't worth the time fighting, particularly this one given information like "date" doesn't actually matter for the purpose of calculating the grade.
But it does matter to the ECF's financial administration: the ECF membership year is not congruent with current grading periods, and this can cause practical problems in assessing Game Fee liability if the grader simply gives one date for every game in an event such as a club championship.

PB

Alex Holowczak
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Re: July 2019 grades......

Post by Alex Holowczak » Tue Sep 03, 2019 9:45 am

Paul Buswell wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 6:36 am
Alex Holowczak wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 10:18 am


So then the club will just make up dates and colours before they send them off to Julie. This ticks the box so bureaucrats can pat themselves on the back, but it doesn't actually address the underlying issue. Some battles aren't worth the time fighting, particularly this one given information like "date" doesn't actually matter for the purpose of calculating the grade.
But it does matter to the ECF's financial administration: the ECF membership year is not congruent with current grading periods, and this can cause practical problems in assessing Game Fee liability if the grader simply gives one date for every game in an event such as a club championship.

PB
In the monthly grading world, it will be less significant since the membership year and grading periods will align themselves. I suspect this isn't the place to have this discussion, but a canny club will already be doing this sort of thing already to minimise their liability. With monthly submissions, there'll be less scope to exploit that.

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