January Grades are out

General discussions about grading.
David Gilbert
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Re: January Grades are out

Post by David Gilbert » Thu Feb 06, 2020 10:29 am

Paul Dupré wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 10:06 am


Also, my opponent last night has duplicate Kent league results (292992C Kolomvas, Dimitrios) from 2019/20 season.
All Kent League games for October 2019 are duplicated. The ECF was advised before the January grades were published and subsequently. I'd expect these to be corrected in the next update.

Ian Thompson
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Location: Awbridge, Hampshire

Re: January Grades are out

Post by Ian Thompson » Thu Feb 06, 2020 10:50 am

Paul Dupré wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 10:06 am
4 Games prior to Xmas 2018 (in Surrey League) now showing up as 2019. Due to Matthew Carr deleting 1st submission, instead of insisting 2nd submission without the 1st submission results.
That seems unlikely. The way it's supposed to work is that if you make multiple submissions with the same event code then the submission with the highest submission index will be used and all others will be disregarded.

If you made a second submission without the first submission results you'd have to use a different event code to avoid losing all the results in the first submission.

Mike Gunn
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Re: January Grades are out

Post by Mike Gunn » Thu Feb 06, 2020 2:17 pm

I think what went wrong can be deduced from the following which I have extracted from the grading website help files:

"How is "most recent 30" interpreted if a game has been reported late and graded in the "wrong" period? Answer: the game will be listed under the grading period in which it was reported and calculated, and it will go into that period's grade with a notional playing date of 1st January (or 1st July as the case may be). This notional date will be used, where necessary, to determine the game's position in the backward count to 30."

In January 2019 I submitted Surrey League results for the period July to December 2018.

In July 2019 I submitted Surrey League results for the period July 2018 June 2019 (submission index =2) but (inadvertently with a different event code to the one used in January. Hence (initially) games in the period July to December 2018 were included twice in the grading calculation. This was "fixed" last summer by removing the first grading file mentioned above.

Now it seems that what happened in in the latest grading is that the software looked back to the previous period (to get at least 30 games) and included the games with a corrected date of January 1st 2019 which (in many cases) would have been unnecessary.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: January Grades are out

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu Feb 06, 2020 2:33 pm

Mike Gunn wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 2:17 pm

Now it seems that what happened in in the latest grading is that the software looked back to the previous period (to get at least 30 games) and included the games with a corrected date of January 1st 2019 which (in many cases) would have been unnecessary.
The system was supposedly changed a few years ago so that all games in the previous twelve months were counted. If extra games needed to be added to make up 30, these were added at the average for the previous period. In other words, direct counting back didn't apply. It could be that the grade calculations are themselves correct but the count of games included is done separately and perhaps erroneously. For the half yearly grades, there's no distinct indication as to which games had been included in the last half year of the previous season and which were new.

Angus French
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Re: January Grades are out

Post by Angus French » Thu Feb 06, 2020 2:58 pm

Mike Gunn wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 2:17 pm
In July 2019 I submitted Surrey League results for the period July 2018 June 2019 (submission index =2) but (inadvertently with a different event code to the one used in January. Hence (initially) games in the period July to December 2018 were included twice in the grading calculation. This was "fixed" last summer by removing the first grading file mentioned above.

Now it seems that what happened in in the latest grading is that the software looked back to the previous period (to get at least 30 games) and included the games with a corrected date of January 1st 2019 which (in many cases) would have been unnecessary.
Wouldn't the system take all the results attributed to 2019, whether they numbered less than 31 or not, including the all the ones for games played in 2018 which it considers as reported against a 2019 grading period? In my own case I played 56 games in 2019 - i.e. somewhat more than 30 - and the system appears to have calculated my grade using the results of those games AND the results of two games played in 2018. Further, correspondence with Brian Valentine indicates that only one of the two additional results came from the Surrey league (the other came from the London league).

Ian Thompson
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Location: Awbridge, Hampshire

Re: January Grades are out

Post by Ian Thompson » Thu Feb 06, 2020 8:29 pm

Angus French wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 2:58 pm
Further, correspondence with Brian Valentine indicates that only one of the two additional results came from the Surrey league (the other came from the London league).
If I was going to hazard a guess, it would be that the London League game was the one you played on 19 November 2018 against Rishi Patel which was adjourned. As no result was available it couldn't be submitted at the end of December 2018, and so wasn't included in the January 2019 grading calculation. It would have been submitted for grading in June 2019 with a date played of 19 November 2018. If the explanation above is correct that means the ECF would have treated it as if it was played on 1 January 2019.

As far as I know, the ECF has not issued any guidance on the date that should be assigned to a game that was started in one grading period and finished in the next one. In the absence of any guidance it's a moot point about whether including it in the count of games played in 2019 is right or wrong.

Nick Grey
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Re: January Grades are out

Post by Nick Grey » Thu Feb 06, 2020 9:42 pm

My grade has gone down and it was not 2 good performances in major tournaments being replaced by a great open. No adjourned games and if duplicates they may come out.
My opponents will have more points to lose. Fantastic.

Angus French
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Re: January Grades are out

Post by Angus French » Thu Feb 06, 2020 10:20 pm

Ian Thompson wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 8:29 pm
Angus French wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 2:58 pm
Further, correspondence with Brian Valentine indicates that only one of the two additional results came from the Surrey league (the other came from the London league).
If I was going to hazard a guess, it would be that the London League game was the one you played on 19 November 2018 against Rishi Patel which was adjourned. As no result was available it couldn't be submitted at the end of December 2018, and so wasn't included in the January 2019 grading calculation. It would have been submitted for grading in June 2019 with a date played of 19 November 2018. If the explanation above is correct that means the ECF would have treated it as if it was played on 1 January 2019.

As far as I know, the ECF has not issued any guidance on the date that should be assigned to a game that was started in one grading period and finished in the next one. In the absence of any guidance it's a moot point about whether including it in the count of games played in 2019 is right or wrong.
Well spotted, Ian. You're right that my game against Rishi Patel which began in November 2018 wasn't resolved until late January 2019 - I'd forgotten that was the case - which would have been too late for January 2019 grading... So it looks like Mike's theory about the Surrey league results could be correct - with the possible clarification, I think, that results were still still taken from 2018 regardless of whether there were 30 or more results in 2019.

Brian Valentine
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Re: January Grades are out

Post by Brian Valentine » Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:29 pm

The February update of the January list is now on the website. I have gone through this thread and we have addressed all the issues raised. Please can graders get in touch with Matt Carr if we have partially dealt with anything or something else is not right.

Brian Valentine
Manager of ECF grading

J T Melsom
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Re: January Grades are out

Post by J T Melsom » Thu Feb 27, 2020 7:17 pm

Many thanks to Brian, Matt and those who volunteer locally to undertake the grading process. I think this was the first year I've raised an issue with the grading team and it was acknowledged and processed promptly. As a result one of my opponents who had previously had duplicate grading references, now has one reference and an F grade.

Paul Dupré
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Re: January Grades are out

Post by Paul Dupré » Mon Mar 02, 2020 10:12 pm

Well done Brian.
My Grade is now A170 as it should be, though still one game short.
The missing game for anyone who's interested was Internal South Norwood club tournament 28-Mar-2019 against Richard Davis [132] which I won.
Even the historical corrections have been made now. I'm back to 166 for last January's grade, perfect !!!
Any postings on here represent the truth, and nothing but the truth, so help me God,
...and by the way the world is flat.

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