2010-2011 Grades?

General discussions about grading.
Post Reply
User avatar
Ben Purton
Posts: 1622
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 5:53 am
Location: Berks

2010-2011 Grades?

Post by Ben Purton » Wed May 11, 2011 5:17 pm

Any idea when the last games will go in to ECF grading etc
I love sleep, I need 8 hours a day and about 10 at night - Bill Hicks
I would die happy if I beat Wood Green in the Eastman Cup final - Richmond LL captain.
Hating the Yankees since 2002. Hating the Jets since 2001.

Alex Holowczak
Posts: 9085
Joined: Sat May 30, 2009 5:18 pm
Location: Oldbury, Worcestershire
Contact:

Re: 2010-2011 Grades?

Post by Alex Holowczak » Wed May 11, 2011 5:22 pm

I guess the answer would be "The same time they do every year?"

The Birmingham League hasn't actually finished yet, but should have done by Friday. There's 1 playoff tonight (which is quickplay finishes), and 1 adjourned session on Friday in a playoff I'm involved in. Naturally, this delays getting grading files sent in...

Roger de Coverly
Posts: 19262
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:51 pm

Re: 2010-2011 Grades?

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed May 11, 2011 5:23 pm

Ben Purton wrote:Any idea when the last games will go in to ECF grading etc
The usual rule for the cut off is May 31st. So if you have a late-running cup final, it can find itself in the following season.

Ian Thompson
Posts: 2671
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 4:31 pm
Location: Awbridge, Hampshire

Re: 2010-2011 Grades?

Post by Ian Thompson » Wed May 11, 2011 5:34 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Ben Purton wrote:Any idea when the last games will go in to ECF grading etc
The usual rule for the cut off is May 31st. So if you have a late-running cup final, it can find itself in the following season.
And in the case of last season's Berkshire Premier Precision Cup Final, it had better ... :)

Paul Dupré
Posts: 222
Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2008 11:04 pm
Location: Sutton, Surrey

Re: 2010-2011 Grades?

Post by Paul Dupré » Wed May 11, 2011 5:47 pm

Alex Holowczak wrote:The Birmingham League hasn't actually finished yet, but should have done by Friday. There's 1 playoff tonight (which is quickplay finishes), and 1 adjourned session on Friday in a playoff I'm involved in. Naturally, this delays getting grading files sent in...
I guess the best way to deal with this problem, would be to ban leagues from the grading list. Especially, as they are not proper games really. They are more coffee house than real chess. Most involve cheating like adjournments and adjudications. Or just include league chess under rapidplay grades.
Any postings on here represent the truth, and nothing but the truth, so help me God,
...and by the way the world is flat.

User avatar
Rob Thompson
Posts: 757
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 12:03 pm
Location: Behind you

Re: 2010-2011 Grades?

Post by Rob Thompson » Wed May 11, 2011 5:52 pm

Paul Dupré wrote:I guess the best way to deal with this problem, would be to ban leagues from the grading list. Especially, as they are not proper games really. They are more coffee house than real chess. Most involve cheating like adjournments and adjudications. Or just include league chess under rapidplay grades.
Do you seriously believe this? Some league games involve adjournments, blocking all from being being graded because of this is quite frankly ridiculous. Also, are you trying to claim that the 4NCL is not "proper games"? Afaik they are the largest league in the country, and you want their 7 hour session in rapidplay grades?
True glory lies in doing what deserves to be written; in writing what deserves to be read.

Alex Holowczak
Posts: 9085
Joined: Sat May 30, 2009 5:18 pm
Location: Oldbury, Worcestershire
Contact:

Re: 2010-2011 Grades?

Post by Alex Holowczak » Wed May 11, 2011 6:00 pm

Rob Thompson wrote:Afaik they are the largest league in the country, and you want their 7 hour session in rapidplay grades?
The 4NCL is the largest league in the country. This is disputed by the Birmingham League, but they're wrong.

Sean Hewitt

Re: 2010-2011 Grades?

Post by Sean Hewitt » Wed May 11, 2011 6:14 pm

Alex Holowczak wrote:The 4NCL is the largest league in the country. This is disputed by the Birmingham League, but they're wrong.
It's not like you to sit on the fence like this Alex :lol:

John Upham
Posts: 5051
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 10:29 am
Location: Cove, Hampshire, England.
Contact:

Re: 2010-2011 Grades?

Post by John Upham » Wed May 11, 2011 6:14 pm

Rob Thompson wrote:
Do you seriously believe this?
I believe that Paul is referring to evening leagues, especially those allowing other persons to decide the outcome of the game or the use of third parties (human or Silicon) to provide outside assistance.

Hopefully, most forumites have seen the light in this respect but I recognise that many have still so to do.
British Chess News : britishchessnews.com
Twitter: @BritishChess
Facebook: facebook.com/groups/britishchess :D

Ian Thompson
Posts: 2671
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 4:31 pm
Location: Awbridge, Hampshire

Re: 2010-2011 Grades?

Post by Ian Thompson » Wed May 11, 2011 6:22 pm

Alex Holowczak wrote:
Rob Thompson wrote:Afaik they are the largest league in the country, and you want their 7 hour session in rapidplay grades?
The 4NCL is the largest league in the country. This is disputed by the Birmingham League, but they're wrong.
They might be using a different measure for "largest" than you are. Any of number of teams, number of players or number of games played would be reasonable, but they might not all give the same answer.

Paul Dupré
Posts: 222
Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2008 11:04 pm
Location: Sutton, Surrey

Re: 2010-2011 Grades?

Post by Paul Dupré » Wed May 11, 2011 6:25 pm

Rob Thompson wrote:Do you seriously believe this? Some league games involve adjournments, blocking all from being being graded because of this is quite frankly ridiculous. Also, are you trying to claim that the 4NCL is not "proper games"? Afaik they are the largest league in the country, and you want their 7 hour session in rapidplay grades?
Obviously, I'm not talking about the 4NCL - they have arbiters and duplicate score sheets - they are professionally run.
Why would I think a FIDE event like the 4NCL should be discounted from the grading list?

No, my biggest problem with Evening Leagues is that they are so unfair to non-drivers and the like. They think that all their spurious rules they come up with are fair - when in reality they are just a pain in the butt. The only sensible thing they should do is have two thirty minute games, and turn evening league chess back to what they are supposed to be - which is fun, not hard labour which they are now!!! For example:

1. The Surrey League - the away player suggests two of a) QPF b) Adjudication c) Adjournment - then the home player chooses from the two selections.
2. The Border League - the away player has to say at the beginning that he wants to Adjourn or it's forced adjudication at the end of play.
3. The London League - forced adjournment after 30 moves.
4. The Thames Valley League - you make decision for adjournment or adjudication at the end.

Forgive if any of the rules have changed, as I gave up playing league chess because the people running the league are just so stick in the mud. The point is all league chess should be under the same set of rules, not each to his own.
Last edited by Paul Dupré on Wed May 11, 2011 6:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Any postings on here represent the truth, and nothing but the truth, so help me God,
...and by the way the world is flat.

Alex Holowczak
Posts: 9085
Joined: Sat May 30, 2009 5:18 pm
Location: Oldbury, Worcestershire
Contact:

Re: 2010-2011 Grades?

Post by Alex Holowczak » Wed May 11, 2011 6:28 pm

Ian Thompson wrote:
Alex Holowczak wrote:
Rob Thompson wrote:Afaik they are the largest league in the country, and you want their 7 hour session in rapidplay grades?
The 4NCL is the largest league in the country. This is disputed by the Birmingham League, but they're wrong.
They might be using a different measure for "largest" than you are. Any of number of teams, number of players or number of games played would be reasonable, but they might not all give the same answer.
The 4NCL has:
(a) More halfresults (8 votes at Council v 7)
(b) More teams (76 v 74)
(c) More players (can't work this out, but the team sizes are bigger in the 4NCL ([32 x 8 + 42 x 6] v [63 x 6 + 11 x 4])

Which other definition of largest should I be using?

John Upham
Posts: 5051
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 10:29 am
Location: Cove, Hampshire, England.
Contact:

Re: 2010-2011 Grades?

Post by John Upham » Wed May 11, 2011 6:29 pm

Paul Dupré wrote: 2. The Border League - the away player has to say at the beginning that he wants to Adjourn or it's forced adjudication at the end of play.
Paul,

I am pleased to have contributed to the dumping of this nonsense.

The SBL did away with adjudication some years ago.

Adjournment now only happens if both players want it : no-one can be forced into this nonsense any longer.

We now have much more sensible time control including incremental ones for those who understand the benefits.
British Chess News : britishchessnews.com
Twitter: @BritishChess
Facebook: facebook.com/groups/britishchess :D

Ian Thompson
Posts: 2671
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 4:31 pm
Location: Awbridge, Hampshire

Re: 2010-2011 Grades?

Post by Ian Thompson » Wed May 11, 2011 6:33 pm

Alex Holowczak wrote:The 4NCL has:
(a) More halfresults (8 votes at Council v 7)
(b) More teams (76 v 74)
(c) More players (can't work this out, but the team sizes are bigger in the 4NCL ([32 x 8 + 42 x 6] v [63 x 6 + 11 x 4])

Which other definition of largest should I be using?
How have you counted teams that didn't complete the full season? That might make all the difference to the winner. :lol:

I wasn't saying you were wrong, just that one league might, for example, have a valid claim based on number of games, and another might have a valid claim based on number of teams.

Alex Holowczak
Posts: 9085
Joined: Sat May 30, 2009 5:18 pm
Location: Oldbury, Worcestershire
Contact:

Re: 2010-2011 Grades?

Post by Alex Holowczak » Wed May 11, 2011 6:33 pm

Paul Dupré wrote:Forgive if any of the rules have changed, as I gave up playing league chess because the people running the league are just so stick in the mud. The point is all league chess should be under the same set of rules, not each to his own.
I disagree with that, I think that with varying the rules slightly (on things like time controls) is a good thing. It adds a bit of variety to what would otherwise be quite mundane. There are some dumb rules in league chess - there was one in the Thames Valley League that appeared in another thread and made no sense - so you stay involved and propose changes to them! There's a league around here which has rules about "Blitz finishes", they mean Quickplay Finishes. They then say you can't claim a win with an illegal move in the blitz finish, but instead it's two minutes on the opponent's clock. If they used the right term in the first place, they wouldn't have a problem. So I've let them know, and they can change it next year.

I don't like adjournments either, but I'd rather lobby to get the rule change than give up and never play again just because the rule isn't a rule I like.

Post Reply