Can you put a value on a game of chess?

General discussions about grading.
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Paul Dupré
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Can you put a value on a game of chess?

Post by Paul Dupré » Sat May 14, 2011 2:33 pm

Please find listed below a game played recently.

Can anybody guess the ECF grades of the two players.


1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 Bg7 4. e4 d6 5. Be2 O-O 6. Nf3 e5 7. O-O Nc6 8. d5
Ne7 9. b4 Nh5 10. Re1 f5 11. Ng5 Nf6 12. c5 h6 13. Ne6 Bxe6 14. dxe6 fxe4 15.
cxd6 cxd6 16. Qb3 d5 17. Ba3 d4 18. Na4 d3 19. Bd1 Kh7 20. b5 Rc8 21. Rb1 Ned5
22. b6 a6 23. Qb2 e3 24. fxe3 e4 25. Qd2 Re8 26. Nc5 Qd6 27. Qa5 Nxe3 28. Nxb7
Qc6 29. Nd6 Nc4 30. Qc5 Nxa3 31. Qxa3 Bf8 32. Qb2 Qxd6 33. Qxf6 Bg7 34. Qf7 Rf8
35. b7 Qc5+ 36. Kh1 Rxf7 37. bxc8=Q Qxc8 38. exf7 d2 39. Rf1 Qc4 40. Bb3 Qd3
41. Rbd1 e3 42. f8=Q Bxf8 43. Rxf8 Qxb3 44. axb3 e2 45. Rff1 e1=Q 46. Rdxe1 1-0
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IM Jack Rudd
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Re: Can you put a value on a game of chess?

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Sat May 14, 2011 2:47 pm

Difficult to say. They look reasonably well booked up and came up with some imaginative ideas, so I'd hazard a guess that they're pretty strong.

Geoff Chandler
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Re: Can you put a value on a game of chess?

Post by Geoff Chandler » Sun May 15, 2011 9:35 pm

An interesting one this.

Obviously played in England as Paul mentions ECF grades.
Possibly under 2000 as the phrase of the question indicates
a good entertaining game played by so called weaker players.

There again the last move blunders by Black could be that
of a strong player who screwed up in TT.

I went though it and it does seem to swing about a bit with
loads of tactical play.

Strong players once they have a grip on a game rarely let it go.
When they do their opponent rarely let it go.
This one is up and down and but it does appear Black let it go.

(Jack says: "so I'd hazard a guess that they're pretty strong."
which had me thinking he was one of the players.....Hmmmm. Nah.)

Paul was a TC at a recent Rapid Play event and this game smacks of blitz.

And reading his recent post he has expressed an interest in junior chess
and gradings (amongst other things.)

I'd say it was a toe to toe slug feast between two juniors at a rapid
play event or some event where time trouble played a role and the players
were under 2000.

(...and the clock used was in a black bin liner) ;)

Thomas Rendle
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Re: Can you put a value on a game of chess?

Post by Thomas Rendle » Sun May 15, 2011 9:43 pm

Maybe 200 White 170-180 Black. Alternatively they could be stronger players playing a quick time limit (even a league game of say 90min each). Of course this is just based on this game - it's not going to tell you the strength of the players in reality - I could show you a game I played as White where it would be easy to assume White was somewhere between 100-130 ;)

Jonathan Rogers
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Re: Can you put a value on a game of chess?

Post by Jonathan Rogers » Sun May 15, 2011 10:15 pm

Thomas Rendle wrote:Maybe 200 White 170-180 Black. Alternatively they could be stronger players playing a quick time limit (even a league game of say 90min each). Of course this is just based on this game - it's not going to tell you the strength of the players in reality - I could show you a game I played as White where it would be easy to assume White was somewhere between 100-130 ;)
No need - I was there in person at the end of the Tissir game! :wink:

Paul Dupré
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Re: Can you put a value on a game of chess?

Post by Paul Dupré » Sun May 15, 2011 10:19 pm

OK, round 2 white is now playing black, on board 2 in the open.

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 e5 6. Ndb5 d6 7. Bg5 a6 8.
Na3 b5 9. Nd5 Be7 10. Bxf6 Bxf6 11. c4 b4 12. Nc2 Rb8 13. b3 O-O 14. h4 Be7 15.
Bd3 Re8 16. Qh5 g6 17. Qf3 Be6 18. h5 g5 19. g4 h6 20. O-O-O a5 21. Qe2 a4 22.
Kb2 Qa5 23. Ra1 Qa7 24. Rhg1 Kg7 25. Qe3 a3+ 26. Kc1 Qd7 27. f3 Bd8 28. Rg2 Rf8
29. Kd2 f6 {(=)} 30. Ke2 Rf7 31. Rd1 Qc8 32. Rc1 Qb7 33. Rh2 Rf8 34. Rhh1 Rf7
35. Rhd1 Rf8 36. c5 dxc5 37. Qxc5 Rf7 38. Bc4 Rd7 39. Nce3 Rc8 40. Kf2 Nd4 41.
Qxb4 Bxd5 42. Nxd5 Qa7 43. Kg2 Ne6 44. Kg3 Ba5 45. Qa4 Nc5 46. Qb5 Rb7 47. Ne3
Nxe4+ 48. Kh2 Rxb5 49. Bxb5 Rxc1 50. Nf5+ Kf8 51. Rxc1 Qf2+ 52. Kh3 Qxf3+ 53.
Kh2 Qf4+ 0-1

Oh yeh, apparently Black offered a draw to get White to try and win...
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Geoff Chandler
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Re: Can you put a value on a game of chess?

Post by Geoff Chandler » Sun May 15, 2011 10:46 pm

Who were the players in the first game?

Paul Dupré
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Re: Can you put a value on a game of chess?

Post by Paul Dupré » Thu Oct 25, 2012 12:14 am

Thomas Rendle wrote:Maybe 200 White 170-180 Black.
Wrong way around !!!
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Maxim Devereaux
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Re: Can you put a value on a game of chess?

Post by Maxim Devereaux » Thu Oct 25, 2012 12:41 pm

Okay, so you've said Black is 170-180, but as we can see, well booked up.

In game 2, his/her Sveshnikov is pretty sound, though 12...O-O has a better reputation than 12... Rb8 these days (the b-pawn is not really en prise for a couple of moves, at least not with any hope of White emerging from the opening with an advantage), and 15...Re8 doesn't really have any place in Black's strategy. 14...Be7 is correct however, and not easy to find if you don't know the idea (the plan is ...Be6 ...Qd7 and ...Bd8-b6). Certainly Black looks to have a better appreciation of how the Sveshnikov should be played than I did when I was 180!

White is clearly stronger than that. I find very few players under about 2300 appreciate the strength of h4 in the positional line, which forces Black into this rather artificial-looking regrouping: my last three Svesnikovs (all this month, which is very rare that I get to play it so many times in close succession!), vs. players rated 2280, 2140 and 2200, did not feature h4 by White at all. I'm going to hazard a guess that White is around 215-220 ECF.

So, our hero in these two games is, I guess, an up-and-coming junior, who got good results against higher rated opponents here?

John Moore
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Re: Can you put a value on a game of chess?

Post by John Moore » Thu Oct 25, 2012 6:01 pm

It's not me, is it - grade's about right if you believe Max! Actually, now I come to think of it, I have never played anything as interesting as the Sveshnikov and whilst I do usually forget my games as soon as I play them, I don't usually forget a whole tournament.

Anyway give us the answer please, Paul.

Michele Clack
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Re: Can you put a value on a game of chess?

Post by Michele Clack » Thu Oct 25, 2012 9:42 pm

Just when I'm thinking that this forum is getting to be a waste of space a little gem like this pops up. Don't keep us in suspense who are the players?

Paul Dupré
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Re: Can you put a value on a game of chess?

Post by Paul Dupré » Sun Oct 28, 2012 1:31 am

Maxim Devereaux wrote:Okay, so you've said Black is 170-180, but as we can see, well booked up.
No, I said Black is 200+
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Paul Dupré
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Re: Can you put a value on a game of chess?

Post by Paul Dupré » Sun Oct 28, 2012 1:35 am

michele clack wrote:Just when I'm thinking that this forum is getting to be a waste of space a little gem like this pops up. Don't keep us in suspense who are the players?
Sorry to disappoint, but, the player winning with White, then with Black is now ungraded and refuses to play any more. He lives in Morden and only plays 1 minute chess on PlayChess.com
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Paul Dupré
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Re: Can you put a value on a game of chess?

Post by Paul Dupré » Sun Oct 28, 2012 1:00 am





It was a good day, 3/3 leading by half a point went home and came back the next day to make a beginner's error - down hill from there.

Any postings on here represent the truth, and nothing but the truth, so help me God,
...and by the way the world is flat.

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