January 2014 Grades

General discussions about grading.
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David Blower
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January 2014 Grades

Post by David Blower » Thu Jan 02, 2014 1:32 am

Happy New Year everyone!

With that out the way, the deadline of December 31st for games to be included in the new grading period has passed, and soon the new grades will be published.

Any predictions as to what your grade will be, do you think you have gone up or down?

Roger de Coverly
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Re: January 2014 Grades

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu Jan 02, 2014 1:40 am

David Blower wrote: With that out the way, the deadline of December 31st for games to be included in the new grading period has passed, and soon the new grades will be published.
There are still games yet to be played. The Hastings Masters, still in progress, will be included in the December grades. It was a step backwards in clarity for the July 2013 list, that the estimated grades of Juniors and new players are no longer shown.

Jonathan Bryant
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Re: January 2014 Grades

Post by Jonathan Bryant » Thu Jan 02, 2014 12:33 pm

Not having played 30 games this period, my new grade will depend to a degree on what games are kept from the first half of 2013. This situation complicated, iirc, by the London League sending in games for the entire season all together at the end rather than splitting the season in two.

<edit: obviously I did not rc - see comments below>

Is there a way of me working out which of the older games will still count?
Last edited by Jonathan Bryant on Thu Jan 02, 2014 6:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: January 2014 Grades

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu Jan 02, 2014 12:39 pm

Jonathan Bryant wrote: Is there a way of me working out which of the older games will still count?
As far as I am aware, they work backwards by date. If you play or are deemed to have played more than one game in a day, all games that day will count.

London League games appear to be individually dated, but the St Albans' games all have the same date.

Graham Borrowdale

Re: January 2014 Grades

Post by Graham Borrowdale » Thu Jan 02, 2014 12:48 pm

Well, having played 5 games this grading period, it will depend which 25 games from last year are counted.

To answer Jonathan, I believe the system uses the dates of the games, and counts back. Don't ask me why I believe this, I just have a hunch. Any other method would be completely arbitrary. I notice that some of my games are bunched together with the same date (01/01/2013), although they were not all played on the same date, which means that they will be the first to be excluded, and hence my grade will be wrong, if not in Jan 14 then in July 14. C'est la vie.

Alan Walton
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Re: January 2014 Grades

Post by Alan Walton » Thu Jan 02, 2014 12:56 pm

I have to agree with Roger that it goes off calendar date

I normally have a spreadsheet calculating mine and in the past where I have had to take games going off date I have been within a point or two in my calculation against the actual grade

Ian Thompson
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Re: January 2014 Grades

Post by Ian Thompson » Thu Jan 02, 2014 1:35 pm

Jonathan Bryant wrote:This situation complicated, iirc, by the London League sending in games for the entire season all together at the end rather than splitting the season in two.
Incorrect - the London League submitted an interim grading return a year ago and will do so again this year.
Roger de Coverly wrote:London League games appear to be individually dated, ...
Of course they are, because the grader does the job properly. :)

Mick Norris
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Re: January 2014 Grades

Post by Mick Norris » Thu Jan 02, 2014 3:36 pm

The grading site says
The grade is calculated by dividing the total number of points scored by the number of games played. If there are 30 or more games in the most recent halfyear, then the grade is based on these games alone. If there are not, it is based on the most recent 30 games played; or on all the games played in the last 36 months if that is less. In no case does calculation go back more than 36 months.

How is "most recent 30" interpreted if a number of games share a date and only some of them are required to make up the 30? Answer: the system takes as many as are required, at the average score for the date.

How is "most recent 30" interpreted if a game has been reported late and graded in the "wrong" period? Answer: the game will be listed under the grading period in which it was calculated, and it will go into that period's grade with a notional playing date of 1st January (or 1st July as the case may be). This notional date will be used, where necessary, to determine the game's position in the backward count to 30.
Any postings on here represent my personal views and should not be taken as representative of the Manchester Chess Federation www.manchesterchess.co.uk

Sean Hewitt
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Re: January 2014 Grades

Post by Sean Hewitt » Thu Jan 02, 2014 5:32 pm

Graham Borrowdale wrote:To answer Jonathan, I believe the system uses the dates of the games, and counts back.
Correct.
Graham Borrowdale wrote:I notice that some of my games are bunched together with the same date (01/01/2013), although they were not all played on the same date, which means that they will be the first to be excluded, and hence my grade will be wrong, if not in Jan 14 then in July 14. C'est la vie.
Speak to the grader of the event, and ask him to correct the information and resubmit it. There's still time.

Jonathan Bryant
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Re: January 2014 Grades

Post by Jonathan Bryant » Thu Jan 02, 2014 6:55 pm

Ian Thompson wrote:
Jonathan Bryant wrote:This situation complicated, iirc, by the London League sending in games for the entire season all together at the end rather than splitting the season in two.
Incorrect - the London League submitted an interim grading return a year ago and will do so again this year.
Apologies - I have amended my post.


Although I'm right to remember that London League games played before Christmas 2012 didn't count for the January 2013 grades, am I? I suppose it's possible that I'm not. My memory is every more erratic with every passing day.

But if I *am* right, that brings up another problem. If the London League games go in but aren't counted then to guess what my grade will be I'll have to not count three games from this season and add in an extra three from early 2013 instead.


EDIT:
perhaps I'm not right to remember this at all. Looking at my grading history I see that the game I played prior to christmas 2012 was against an ungraded opponent. Which would therefore not show up in the grades, right?

Roger de Coverly
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Re: January 2014 Grades

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu Jan 02, 2014 7:01 pm

Jonathan Bryant wrote: Although I'm right to remember that London League games played before Christmas 2012 didn't count for the January 2013 grades, am I?
I thought it was Christmas 2011 and January 2012. So they didn't participate during the first year of six monthly grading, but did so for last season, as did almost every other league.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: January 2014 Grades

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu Jan 02, 2014 7:05 pm

Jonathan Bryant wrote: EDIT:
perhaps I'm not right to remember this at all. Looking at my grading history I see that the game I played prior to christmas 2012 was against an ungraded opponent. Which would therefore not show up in the grades, right?
You're thinking FIDE/Elo rules where games against players without ratings usually don't count. Under ECF rules, all ungraded opponents are given an estimated grade as part of the grading process. The ECF grading site has been downgraded since August 2013 and no longer shows the what these estimates are.

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: January 2014 Grades

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Thu Jan 02, 2014 7:11 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Jonathan Bryant wrote: Although I'm right to remember that London League games played before Christmas 2012 didn't count for the January 2013 grades, am I?
I thought it was Christmas 2011 and January 2012. So they didn't participate during the first year of six monthly grading, but did so for last season, as did almost every other league.
That is my recollection as well. Though after working out what my January grade will be, I am (ahem) switching to the story that only July grades really count for anything... :?

Jonathan Bryant
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Re: January 2014 Grades

Post by Jonathan Bryant » Thu Jan 02, 2014 7:14 pm

David Blower wrote: Any predictions as to what your grade will be, do you think you have gone up or down?

With thanks to Chris and Roger for the clarifications, I can now say that i'm expecting a small bump in the right direction.

Richard Bates
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Re: January 2014 Grades

Post by Richard Bates » Thu Jan 02, 2014 8:20 pm

Is the National Club final going to be submitted? I need all the points i can get... :(

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