July 2014 gradings out

General discussions about grading.
Nicky Chorley
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Re: July 2014 gradings out

Post by Nicky Chorley » Fri Jul 25, 2014 5:38 am

I went up two points, getting ever closer to my goal of 100. I had a good season this year (even if my results show two wins and four losses. Two of those losses were good games), so I'm pleased with that.

Tryfon Gavriel
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Re: July 2014 gradings out

Post by Tryfon Gavriel » Fri Jul 25, 2014 7:42 am

I am very happy with my new standard rating of ECF 212 and even did a video about it here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28KWkR2 ... oUsZafHSUQ

One thing that concerns me a little bit is my Rapid play calculation of 216 based on:

http://www.ecfgrading.org.uk/new/games. ... peed=R#top

When I played Peter Batchelor he was actually over 220 on Rapid as this North Circular Page shows:

http://www.northcircularchess.co.uk/054.html

I have Emailed grading@englishchess.org.uk about this issue

Has anyone else noticed slightly incorrect ratings anywhere ?!

Best wishes
Tryfon
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Roger de Coverly
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Re: July 2014 gradings out

Post by Roger de Coverly » Fri Jul 25, 2014 9:56 am

Tryfon Gavriel wrote: When I played Peter Batchelor he was actually over 220 on Rapid as this North Circular Page shows:
He's a junior, is he not? Published grades are ignored for juniors as they are recalculated as if they are new players.

Steve Rooney
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Re: July 2014 gradings out

Post by Steve Rooney » Fri Jul 25, 2014 10:32 am

Tryfon Gavriel wrote:
Has anyone else noticed slightly incorrect ratings anywhere ?!

Best wishes
Tryfon
I have no reason to think they are incorrect, but there are some interesting variances between standard and rapidplay grades for a number of our county players. In some cases the difference is 20, 30 and in one case 50 points, albeit that many of these are based on fewer rapid games. I haven't done any proper analysis on how unusual this is across the graded population, but on the face of it a difference of 25+ points seems quite a lot.

We started a new Shropshire rapidplay league last season more players have now got a rapid grade and these variances may reduce with more results added in future grading periods.

Ken Norman
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Re: July 2014 gradings out

Post by Ken Norman » Fri Jul 25, 2014 10:41 am

It is interesting to read the new grades of friends and family.

However one part of the information on the grading database is absolute rubbish.
I refer to the list of clubs to which the player allegedly belongs.

My entry includes teams that I have not played for in over three years.

I understand from speaking with other players that this is the normal situation.

I assume that this information has to be updated by hand and as it is not very important the graders don’t bother to keep it up to date.

So why publish information that is inaccurate?

MartinCarpenter
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Re: July 2014 gradings out

Post by MartinCarpenter » Fri Jul 25, 2014 10:54 am

Well you could argue they cull clubs too fast too ;) They're publishing results going all the way back to 2002/3 now, so could make an argument for keeping all the clubs played for in that period.

I presume in practice it happens as/when convenient. The whole process is dependent on volunteers entering crazy amounts of data.

The club information is definitely very useful to have in terms of pulling up a list of players for a given club etc.

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Dave Ewart
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Re: July 2014 gradings out

Post by Dave Ewart » Fri Jul 25, 2014 11:14 am

Rob Thompson wrote:
Dave Ewart wrote:Unchanged at 156, fairly happy with that. At least I'm the Highest-Ranked Ewart again, after Brian Ewart dropped from 159 to below me :-)
I think I'm going to have to wait until Ian Thompson retires from chess to claim that for my surname.
Hah, well there are considerably more of you Thompsons, so your second place is far more impressive! :-)

There is only me and Brian who are active in the Ewart battalion, playing at a similar level: we've swapped The Lead for the past couple of years. And even including the 'inactive' Ewarts doesn't produce anyone else who I recognise except one who is my brother and who hasn't played a competitive game since (if I recall correctly) about 1990.

Ken Norman
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Re: July 2014 gradings out

Post by Ken Norman » Fri Jul 25, 2014 11:17 am

MartinCarpenter wrote:Well you could argue they cull clubs too fast too ;) They're publishing results going all the way back to 2002/3 now, so could make an argument for keeping all the clubs played for in that period.

I presume in practice it happens as/when convenient. The whole process is dependent on volunteers entering crazy amounts of data.

The club information is definitely very useful to have in terms of pulling up a list of players for a given club etc.


How can information about clubs be useful when it lists players who have not been members of that club for a number of years?

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Dave Ewart
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Re: July 2014 gradings out

Post by Dave Ewart » Fri Jul 25, 2014 11:20 am

Ken Norman wrote: ...
My entry includes teams that I have not played for in over three years.
In my case I haven't played for the club I'm listed for in approaching 20 years. In fact, I sent feedback a few years ago saying "Please change me from <club> to <place name>" and got a confirmation that it had been changed, but the change was never reflected in the live listing.

Nigel White
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Re: July 2014 gradings out

Post by Nigel White » Fri Jul 25, 2014 11:58 am

I thought I understood the principles of the ECF grading system, but now I am not so sure.

I am a new player (or rather one returning after a 30 year absence), not a Junior. My standardplay games on which my grade has been based are shown here: http://www.ecfgrading.org.uk/new/games. ... 1H&speed=S

I understand the concept of a starting grade for a new player and I had been keeping my own calculation as the season progressed. My calculated starting grade of 88 for the period is shown as my grade in my opponents listing of matches. I did not play any ungraded players, but one of my 14 opponents was a junior. Had I not played that junior, my understanding is that the calculated starting grade would have been my grade shown for July. However, because I was previously ungraded and I played a junior the calculation progresses to stage 2 and there is an iteration of feeding revised estimates of starting grades of my opponents.

I don't understand how my published grade is 81, a drop of 7 points compared with my starting grade, given the iteration applies to only one of my 14 games. Would not this imply that my junior opponent's starting grade was massively out and got changed in the subsequent iterations? However, this does not seem to be the case as his published grade is close to his starting grade.

Have I missed something? Can anyone please provide an explanation?

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IM Jack Rudd
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Re: July 2014 gradings out

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Fri Jul 25, 2014 12:31 pm

First off: your grade, as an ungraded player, will always go through two iterations. With a junior in the mix, it goes through three iterations. You also have two opponents outside the 40-point-rule range of your starting estimate, who will have been treated as 160 and 135 when constructing it, but 128 thereafter.

MartinCarpenter
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Re: July 2014 gradings out

Post by MartinCarpenter » Fri Jul 25, 2014 1:12 pm

Well firstly an awful lot of people just don't change clubs very often at all, and it is sometimes updated fairly promptly. So the figures are quite reliable overall.

Its especially useful for uses like captains checking where the grades of all the players attached to your club(s) have ended up this time checking through all the Yorkshire club teams to see who's qualified for a grade limited county squad etc etc. Having the odd player listed who has since left doesn't affect this sort of thing at all.

Graham Borrowdale

Re: July 2014 gradings out

Post by Graham Borrowdale » Fri Jul 25, 2014 1:14 pm

Grade at a record high, but still playing c****; I suspect inflation is still around...

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Joey Stewart
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Re: July 2014 gradings out

Post by Joey Stewart » Fri Jul 25, 2014 1:54 pm

I think it is time to break out the champaign and cuban cigars - I went up by a whole 1 point!!
Lose one queen and it is a disaster, Lose 1000 queens and it is just a statistic.

MartinCarpenter
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Re: July 2014 gradings out

Post by MartinCarpenter » Fri Jul 25, 2014 2:10 pm

Graham Borrowdale wrote:Grade at a record high, but still playing c****; I suspect inflation is still around...
Actually your grade in 2006 would have directly converted to 190 in the 'new' money so you're still beneath that :) Level with all those earlier 177/178's.

Grades in the +-180 area do seem to have been very volatile over the past few years. Plenty of fairly stable ~170 players in Yorkshire peaking towards/reaching 190 and some dropping quite low. I managed both in one year ;) Hopefully it'll sort itself out soon enough.
(The Yorkshire players I idely track as closeish peers are very tightly clustered round 180 this time round.).

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