amateur hour in the 4NCL FIDE grading.

General discussions about grading.
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IM Jack Rudd
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Re: amateur hour in the 4NCL FIDE grading.

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Thu May 21, 2009 4:39 pm

Ian Kingston wrote:This may be my memory playing tricks, but I thought that it was now possible to get a full rating by playing nine games in a Swiss tournament, whereas until now that was only possible in an all-play-all (subject to playing against enough rated players). That might have influenced the 4NCL - I'm just speculating to try to come up with a reason for not submitting all of the results for each weekend as played, instead of what appears to have been done.
It's been possible to get a full rating by playing nine games in a Swiss tournament since at least 1994, and probably earlier than that. I know this because that's how I got my first rating.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: amateur hour in the 4NCL FIDE grading.

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu May 21, 2009 4:52 pm

It's been possible to get a full rating by playing nine games in a Swiss tournament since at least 1994, and probably earlier than that. I know this because that's how I got my first rating.
It was always the case that you got a rating by playing 9 rated players in a Swiss and this could be done in one tournament with the "right" pairings. I think the change from July is that you can now include some unrated players in the mix.


edited to make it clear that I meant in a Swiss
Last edited by Roger de Coverly on Thu May 21, 2009 6:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Ben Purton
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Re: amateur hour in the 4NCL FIDE grading.

Post by Ben Purton » Thu May 21, 2009 4:55 pm

RdC if you end up putting restrictions on grades in the Berkshire league because of certain Camberley captain's jealousy it wont be good times :)....Keep div 1 open for the GM's!!
I love sleep, I need 8 hours a day and about 10 at night - Bill Hicks
I would die happy if I beat Wood Green in the Eastman Cup final - Richmond LL captain.
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Greg Breed
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Re: amateur hour in the 4NCL FIDE grading.

Post by Greg Breed » Thu May 21, 2009 6:36 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:It was always the case that you got a rating by playing 9 rated players and this could be done in one tournament with the "right" pairings. I think the change from July is that you can now include some unrated players in the mix.
I got my FIDE rating by playing in the Coulsdon "Get Me A FIDE Rating" congress from Mon 17th - Sat 22nd December 2007. There were 4 rated players out of 12 and it was all-play-all.
http://www.ccfworld.com/Chess/Results/2 ... tional.htm
Hatch End A Captain (Hillingdon League)
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Sean Hewitt

Re: amateur hour in the 4NCL FIDE grading.

Post by Sean Hewitt » Sun May 24, 2009 5:26 pm

I see that they have re-rated the 4NCL.

They've fixed the problem of rated players having games from Rounds 1-6 rated twice. But they've created another error.

Unrated players now have not had their games from Rounds 1-6 rated at all!!

:oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops:

Mike Truran
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Re: amateur hour in the 4NCL FIDE grading.

Post by Mike Truran » Sun May 24, 2009 8:12 pm

Why not email Neville direct instead of assuming he picks these things up via the forum?!

Sean Hewitt

Re: amateur hour in the 4NCL FIDE grading.

Post by Sean Hewitt » Mon May 25, 2009 12:54 pm

Mike Truran wrote:Why not email Neville direct instead of assuming he picks these things up via the forum?!
Why do you assume that I hadn't told Neville before I posted here? :oops:

Neville is in fact at my Amersham Congress, and I told him first thing yesterday morning - in person - as soon as I saw it. To be fair, I wouldn't have thought that this is his mistake.

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Ben Purton
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Re: amateur hour in the 4NCL FIDE grading.

Post by Ben Purton » Mon May 25, 2009 3:59 pm

Our International grader(Nap!)
I love sleep, I need 8 hours a day and about 10 at night - Bill Hicks
I would die happy if I beat Wood Green in the Eastman Cup final - Richmond LL captain.
Hating the Yankees since 2002. Hating the Jets since 2001.

Matt Harrison
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Re: amateur hour in the 4NCL FIDE grading.

Post by Matt Harrison » Wed Jun 03, 2009 8:48 pm

Is there anyone with any information about whether this will be resolved in time for the 1st July?

My son needs his 1.5/3 from this season's 4NCL to get his first full FIDE rating. One minute it was there, the next it was gone!

Justin Hadi

Re: amateur hour in the 4NCL FIDE grading.

Post by Justin Hadi » Mon Jun 08, 2009 8:56 am

The ratings have been messed up again. One of my games from the 4NCL has disappeared, win vs Oliver Cooley (Rd 1 of this season). I thought all the 4NCL games go in at once?

Roger de Coverly
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Re: amateur hour in the 4NCL FIDE grading.

Post by Roger de Coverly » Mon Jun 08, 2009 9:31 am

I thought all the 4NCL games go in at once?
For rated players --

weekends 1 and 2 were in the December 2008 list
weekend 3 was in the March 2009 list
weekends 4 and 5 will be in the June 2009 list

all calculations are based on the October 2008 list

For unrated players, their results from all weekends are supposed to go in the June 2009 list. It's believed that only results from weekends 4 and 5 have been included.

By contrast, the German league has been done in one lump ( 15 games possible)

http://ratings.fide.com/tournament_repo ... nt16=15851

Matt Harrison
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Re: amateur hour in the 4NCL FIDE grading.

Post by Matt Harrison » Mon Jun 08, 2009 12:34 pm

And will this be sorted out in time for the July ratings?

My son played 6 games in 4NCL this season, but being in div 3, only 3 were against rated opponents, 2 in weekend 3, 1 in weekend 4. So he isn't listed in either of the tournament listings there at the moment.

Or more accurately, he is listed in both the part 2 and part 3 tournament cross tables on the FIDE website, but as they are currently listed as separate tournaments, then they don't add up to 3 games and count for a part-rating. As his performance for these 3 games was 2068, this is quite annoying for him!

Sean Hewitt

Re: amateur hour in the 4NCL FIDE grading.

Post by Sean Hewitt » Mon Jun 08, 2009 12:55 pm

Matt Harrison wrote:And will this be sorted out in time for the July ratings?

My son played 6 games in 4NCL this season, but being in div 3, only 3 were against rated opponents, 2 in weekend 3, 1 in weekend 4. So he isn't listed in either of the tournament listings there at the moment.

Or more accurately, he is listed in both the part 2 and part 3 tournament cross tables on the FIDE website, but as they are currently listed as separate tournaments, then they don't add up to 3 games and count for a part-rating. As his performance for these 3 games was 2068, this is quite annoying for him!
I have no doubt that this will be sorted eventually, but without knowing whats caused it, its impossible to say when that might be. You might be better emailing the guys at the 4NCL directly.

Howard Grist
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Re: amateur hour in the 4NCL FIDE grading.

Post by Howard Grist » Mon Jun 08, 2009 3:00 pm

I will point out that this problem with the 4NCL rating is the responsibility of the ECF International Rating Officer - Ray Ryan Foster - and that he is aware that there is a problem.
Former ECF Grading System Programmer

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Ben Purton
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Re: amateur hour in the 4NCL FIDE grading.

Post by Ben Purton » Mon Jun 08, 2009 3:12 pm

Rays a top guy and a former Maths teacher I believe so I expect it would be solved very well.
I love sleep, I need 8 hours a day and about 10 at night - Bill Hicks
I would die happy if I beat Wood Green in the Eastman Cup final - Richmond LL captain.
Hating the Yankees since 2002. Hating the Jets since 2001.

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