The January Grading List is out!

General discussions about grading.
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Joey Stewart
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Re: The January Grading List is out!

Post by Joey Stewart » Wed Jan 27, 2016 12:00 pm

So where can you see these 'virtual' ratings to seed juniors? From what I can see it is just a single number - I didnt realise there was some sort of secret list.
Lose one queen and it is a disaster, Lose 1000 queens and it is just a statistic.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: The January Grading List is out!

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed Jan 27, 2016 12:09 pm

Joey Stewart wrote: From what I can see it is just a single number - I didnt realise there was some sort of secret list.
One of your opponents in the last six months was Michael Ashworth who was 190 in the July list. In your results history, he has been counted as 179. In the January 2015 list, he is shown as 187.

So I think what's happened is that they've recalculated him as a new player at 179 and then added a junior increment of 8 (7.5 possibly) to give him a published grade of 187.

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Joey Stewart
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Re: The January Grading List is out!

Post by Joey Stewart » Wed Jan 27, 2016 1:39 pm

Ah ok, I understand the method, but I dont approve at all - I want my extra grading points for getting results against a 190, not a 179 !
Lose one queen and it is a disaster, Lose 1000 queens and it is just a statistic.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: The January Grading List is out!

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed Jan 27, 2016 2:07 pm

Brian Valentine wrote: If the every game is listed, with a 2015 date, with the correct opponent and result then the calculation will be correct. Our priority is to give this basic information for review. It's not perfect and there are improvements in the pipeline.
What convention is supposed to be followed for events such as Hastings where some or all of the tournaments straddle the end of the year? I notice that the Hastings tournaments are loaded to the database but don't appear to have been included in the most recent calculations. The same problem arises when 30th June/1st July is over a weekend and there's a Congress.

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Jon Mahony
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Re: The January Grading List is out!

Post by Jon Mahony » Wed Jan 27, 2016 2:12 pm

We’ll I’ve managed to go down… by a point! It could have been worse, after a string of pretty good results I allowed the very pleasant, but decidedly modest graded Margaret Rowley from Harrogate CC to get a draw out of me in the Yorkshire league - I bit her hand off for that too as it was a lost ending for me :lol:

Rapid has shot up but that just stops me getting nice cheques in Minors :evil:
"When you see a good move, look for a better one!" - Lasker

Andrew Zigmond
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Re: The January Grading List is out!

Post by Andrew Zigmond » Wed Jan 27, 2016 2:18 pm

Jon Mahony wrote:We’ll I’ve managed to go down… by a point! It could have been worse, after a string of pretty good results I allowed the very pleasant, but decidedly modest graded Margaret Rowley from Harrogate CC to get a draw out of me in the Yorkshire league - I bit her hand off for that too as it was a lost ending for me :lol:
Margaret was of course a much stronger player back in the day and when she finds her form it is pretty crushing. Our competitive chess history dates back twenty years and I've only ever beaten her twice.
Controller - Yorkshire League
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Ray Sayers

Re: The January Grading List is out!

Post by Ray Sayers » Wed Jan 27, 2016 2:57 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Brian Valentine wrote: If the every game is listed, with a 2015 date, with the correct opponent and result then the calculation will be correct. Our priority is to give this basic information for review. It's not perfect and there are improvements in the pipeline.
What convention is supposed to be followed for events such as Hastings where some or all of the tournaments straddle the end of the year? I notice that the Hastings tournaments are loaded to the database but don't appear to have been included in the most recent calculations. The same problem arises when 30th June/1st July is over a weekend and there's a Congress.
As I understand it, if some of the games overlap into the new grading half-year, ALL the games go into the later half year (for that event of course!).

Brendan O'Gorman
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Re: The January Grading List is out!

Post by Brendan O'Gorman » Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:26 pm

From the help page on the grading website: Note that a congress which spans two six-month periods will not be split. It will go entirely, for grading purposes, into the second period.

Mick Norris
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Re: The January Grading List is out!

Post by Mick Norris » Wed Jan 27, 2016 4:09 pm

Brian Valentine wrote:
Gavin Strachan wrote:The grades are based on 12 months of chess. Why do they not list the games that have been graded as opposed to those since July?
All the games are listed for all years back to 2003-4! It's split in the traditional way from when we only produced one list a year.

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Brian Valentine
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Re: The January Grading List is out!

Post by Brian Valentine » Wed Jan 27, 2016 4:45 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Brian Valentine wrote: If the every game is listed, with a 2015 date, with the correct opponent and result then the calculation will be correct. Our priority is to give this basic information for review. It's not perfect and there are improvements in the pipeline.
What convention is supposed to be followed for events such as Hastings where some or all of the tournaments straddle the end of the year? I notice that the Hastings tournaments are loaded to the database but don't appear to have been included in the most recent calculations. The same problem arises when 30th June/1st July is over a weekend and there's a Congress.
Roger,

Brendan has pointed out upthread our current stated policy. In the events received section we set out which events have been included in which list. It looks as though all Hastings events crossed the year end and therefore have been held over.

Brian

Roger de Coverly
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Re: The January Grading List is out!

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed Jan 27, 2016 5:07 pm

Brian Valentine wrote:It looks as though all Hastings events crossed the year end and therefore have been held over.
I suspect the policy may have been reversed in recent years. It had been my impression that in the past, it was waited for the Hastings Masters to be completed before including it in the December grading. It's the opposite to the policy used for the Counties Finals which go into the previous season, despite almost always being played in July.

Simon Brown
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Re: The January Grading List is out!

Post by Simon Brown » Wed Jan 27, 2016 5:53 pm

OK, so if I came out of retirement, would I just pick up with my last published grade despite not having played a game for nearly 20 years? And the same for a Rapidplay event, as we didn't have separate grades back then?

Roger de Coverly
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Re: The January Grading List is out!

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed Jan 27, 2016 6:23 pm

Simon Brown wrote:OK, so if I came out of retirement, would I just pick up with my last published grade despite not having played a game for nearly 20 years?
For your FIDE rating yes, for your English grade no. You would be treated in the same way as a player new to English chess. You would need 5 games for an "F" grade and 9 for an "E" grade.

You might find your very old grade being used as an initial estimate, for board orders, seeded pairings, tournament eligibility etc.

I presume these database entries are yours.
http://ecfgrading.org.uk/new/menu.php?f ... de=107510L
http://ratings.fide.com/card.phtml?event=401706

Richard Bates
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Re: The January Grading List is out!

Post by Richard Bates » Wed Jan 27, 2016 6:55 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Brian Valentine wrote:It looks as though all Hastings events crossed the year end and therefore have been held over.
I suspect the policy may have been reversed in recent years. It had been my impression that in the past, it was waited for the Hastings Masters to be completed before including it in the December grading. It's the opposite to the policy used for the Counties Finals which go into the previous season, despite almost always being played in July.
Pretty sure Hastings was included in the January list last year.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: The January Grading List is out!

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed Jan 27, 2016 7:14 pm

Richard Bates wrote: Pretty sure Hastings was included in the January list last year.
Last year's winner appears for the first time in the ECF's published July 2015 list
http://ecfgrading.org.uk/new/menu.php?f ... de=300352J

By contrast Chelsie Sihite, who only played in the 2012-13 Hastings appears in the January 2013 list
http://ecfgrading.org.uk/new/menu.php?f ... de=292576L

It makes sense to treat Hastings as the first event of the new grading half year, as it means there isn't a need to wait for it to finish and be submitted before getting end of period grading processing under way.

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