Rating calculations vs ungraded players.

General discussions about grading.
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Nick Burrows
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Rating calculations vs ungraded players.

Post by Nick Burrows » Sun Feb 21, 2016 11:21 pm

I played 2 players this weekend without a Fide grade. How are games against these players calculated for grading purposes?

Thanks, Nick.

Also is it correct that players without an ecf grade are calculated as the average of your other opponents in the tournament - ie discounted.

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IM Jack Rudd
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Re: Rating calculations vs ungraded players.

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Sun Feb 21, 2016 11:34 pm

For FIDE rating purposes: provided the tournament was not an all-play-all, your results against unrated players do not affect your rating.

For ECF grading purposes: ungraded players are given an estimated rating based on the results of the grading period you're calculating, and this estimate is then fed into the subsequent calculations.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Rating calculations vs ungraded players.

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sun Feb 21, 2016 11:38 pm

Nick Burrows wrote:I played 2 players this weekend without a Fide grade. How are games against these players calculated for grading purposes?
In the ECF system, an estimated grade would be calculated on their performances in the six months between January and June 2016, or longer, if they had played a handful of games in earlier periods. In the FIDE system, they will be ignored (as Jack says).

You can see the result from the tournament website.

http://www.e2e4.org.uk/entrants_gatwick_feb_u1950.htm

It looks as if you got lucky, assuming you want to boost your FIDE rating, by drawing with the unrated players and beating the rated ones.

Angus French
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Re: Rating calculations vs ungraded players.

Post by Angus French » Mon Feb 22, 2016 1:15 pm

See Estimating a starting Grade for an ungraded player (or a junior) on the Grading Database Help page. The precise calculation is a little involved.

Nick Burrows
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Re: Rating calculations vs ungraded players.

Post by Nick Burrows » Fri Oct 19, 2018 12:58 am

Tonight I played a junior with a 1958 Fide grade based on lots of games, but an ecf grade of 145 based on 4 games. When our game is graded, will his current, low data estimate of 145 be used. Or will the better estimate based on future games within the grading period be used retrospectively?

I think he is 170+ Ecf

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Rating calculations vs ungraded players.

Post by Roger de Coverly » Fri Oct 19, 2018 1:52 am

Nick Burrows wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 12:58 am
Or will the better estimate based on future games within the grading period be used retrospectively?
In the ECF grading system, all juniors are treated as new players every year. This means that your performance against him will be graded by reference to games he or she has yet to play. It's getting on for ten years since that change was made. The effect in the UK at least is that FIDE ratings for juniors less active in FIDE rated chess get to bear little relation to their ECF grade, with a corresponding knock on effect for adult ratings. Unusually you are saying that your opponent's FIDE rating is more indicative of his relative strength than his ECF grade.

Nick Burrows
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Re: Rating calculations vs ungraded players.

Post by Nick Burrows » Fri Oct 19, 2018 2:37 am

Thanks Roger

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