English Chess Forum

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cjd0yn5gyndo

I didn't know the family connection so spent a few minutes trying to work it out.

Vera Menchik's great grandfather was George Illingworth (1826-1887):
https://www.familysearch.org/en/tree/pe ... s/9KF2-3QS
George Illingworth - Arthur Wellington Illingworth - Olga Illingworth - Vera Menchik

George Illingworth was the brother of John Thomas Illingworth (1825-1888), who was the great grandfather of Prunella Scales:
https://www.familysearch.org/en/tree/pe ... s/MKJY-S6G
John Thomas Illingworth - Charles Rumney Illingworth - John Richardson Illingworth - Prunella Margaret Rumney Illingworth

So I think that means that Vera Menchik and Prunella Scales were third cousins.

[Edit: Corrected relationship - third cousins, not second]

Jon D'Souza-Eva wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 28, 2025 11:52 am

I didn't know the family connection so spent a few minutes trying to work it out.

Vera Menchik's great grandfather was George Illingworth (1826-1887):
https://www.familysearch.org/en/tree/pe ... s/GNQP-XHC
George Illingworth - Arthur Wellington Illingworth - Olga Illingworth - Vera Menchik

George Illingworth was the brother of John Thomas Illingworth (1825-1888), who was the great grandfather of Prunella Scales:
https://www.familysearch.org/en/tree/pe ... s/MKJY-S6G
John Thomas Illingworth - Charles Rumney Illingworth - John Richardson Illingworth - Prunella Margaret Rumney Illingworth

So I think that means that Vera Menchik and Prunella Scales were second cousins.

This is also what I concluded when I wrote the BCN article on VM originally.

If George Illingworth and John Thomas Illingworth were brothers and were great-grandfathers of the two V.I.P.s, as I think is being asserted above, then the two V.I.P.s were third cousins, having great-great-grandparents in common (i.e. the parents of George and John Thomas).

Thanks John, I had a nagging feeling that second cousins wasn't correct. I've fixed my post.

Do we know if they knew each other? Often such distant relatives are not aware of each other. Sadly, we don't have the original BCN article to check (are any of those available, or backups anywhere?), but we do have the author of the BCN article who we can ask!

Christopher Kreuzer wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 28, 2025 2:53 pm

Do we know if they knew each other? Often such distant relatives are not aware of each other. Sadly, we don't have the original BCN article to check (are any of those available, or backups anywhere?), but we do have the author of the BCN article who we can ask!

I attempted to contact both Prunella and Timothy West a couple of years ago but no luck. I suspect they were both too unwell.

I used to really like Timothy West, he did a great dramatization of the John Bodkin Adams case - can be found here on YT, well worth a watch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zqffYw1qjM&t=3859s

Poor old soul wound up going before Prunella - Hopefully both at peace now.

RIP.

Christopher Kreuzer wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 28, 2025 2:53 pm

Do we know if they knew each other? Often such distant relatives are not aware of each other. Sadly, we don't have the original BCN article to check (are any of those available, or backups anywhere?), but we do have the author of the BCN article who we can ask!

https://web.archive.org/web/20250224095 ... 7-vi-1944/

Richard James wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 01, 2025 7:42 pm

Christopher Kreuzer wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 28, 2025 2:53 pm

Do we know if they knew each other? Often such distant relatives are not aware of each other. Sadly, we don't have the original BCN article to check (are any of those available, or backups anywhere?), but we do have the author of the BCN article who we can ask!

https://web.archive.org/web/20250224095 ... 7-vi-1944/

Many thanks for that Richard: much appreciated.

I've not discussed the reasons for BCN become unavailable as they were too painful.

Wow, she was 93, its easy to forget how time creeps up on the celebrities when they are off screen I'll always remember her in a timeless way as the antagonist on faulty towers - her finest role!