World Senior Team Championships Rhodes 2019

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Alex Holowczak
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Re: World Senior Team Championships Rhodes 2019

Post by Alex Holowczak » Fri Apr 26, 2019 9:50 pm

Leonard Barden wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 8:29 pm
Given the many low quality performances, maybe you need more stringent qualification rules for the Academy, perhaps comparable to the level for the Acceleration Programme. Or maybe a merger of the two with concentration of resources on the small numbers who show real promise by current international standards and by English standards of decades ago.
If there are comparable qualification rules for the Accelerator to the Academy, then there is no point having the Academy, since at present there are only 8 children on the Accelerator.

In addition, the two can't be "merged" easily on the basis that the Chess Trust is responsible for the Accelerator and not the ECF, which is responsible for the Academy.

NickFaulks
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Re: World Senior Team Championships Rhodes 2019

Post by NickFaulks » Fri Apr 26, 2019 10:46 pm

We should not get too negative. The average score of our squad was 4/9. and while in some cases this was not at the top end of expectations it was far from a disgrace. Many of these youngsters were playing in their first really serious chess tournament.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: World Senior Team Championships Rhodes 2019

Post by Roger de Coverly » Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:25 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 10:46 pm
Many of these youngsters were playing in their first really serious chess tournament.
I believe Alex H was proposing that for a first "really serious" tournament, there's no particular need to travel that far. So arrange a squad for a tournament in Britain, or if it has to be abroad, somewhere relatively cheap for accommodation and travel.

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David Shepherd
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Re: World Senior Team Championships Rhodes 2019

Post by David Shepherd » Sat Apr 27, 2019 12:04 am

I think there is not really any such thing as a first "really serious" tournament, other than maybe the first tournament that someone plays in. There are just tournaments appropriate to a players standard and those that are inappropriate. Whilst it may not be necessary to travel that far its like comparing chalk with cheese - playing for example in a world under 8 tournament is not as strong as your local adult open tournament but then you are not being matched with your peers in terms of age and the experience is not the same.

Kevin Thurlow
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Re: World Senior Team Championships Rhodes 2019

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Sat Apr 27, 2019 9:06 am

"Given the many low quality performances, maybe you need more stringent qualification rules for the Academy, perhaps comparable to the level for the Acceleration Programme. Or maybe a merger of the two with concentration of resources on the small numbers who show real promise by current international standards and by English standards of decades ago."

That's what I was thinking before I saw that. Leonard is the true expert in the field of course. It doesn't matter if people ignore me, but please listen to him.

Keith Arkell
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Re: World Senior Team Championships Rhodes 2019

Post by Keith Arkell » Tue Apr 30, 2019 2:20 am

NickFaulks wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:24 am
Keith Arkell wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 11:51 pm
We knew before the match that our Greek opponents were vastly under-rated just by looking at their games. Someone gave the typical explanation that there are lots of ludicrously under-rated kids in Athens stealing all their points!
We see these stories all the time, and it takes a bit of work to investigate them, but occasionally I decide to make the effort.

Keith's opponent has dropped 190 rating points since July 2016, over the course of 227 rated games. These include a total of two games in which he lost to a Greek junior rated below himself.

As is generally the case, the claims of the Greek players collapse when subjected to actual analysis.
Reverting to topic, I'd like to thank Nick for taking the trouble to rule out the Greek's own explanation of why their players played far better chess than would have been expected given their relatively low Elo ratings. To clarify, this included our own pre-match inspection of their level of play coming into the event, the level they were playing at during the event, and the level they played at during the match v us.

England 1 vs Athens Veterans
GM Jon Speelman 1 – 0 Mitradzas 2055
GM Keith Arkell 1 – 0 Ilandzis 2021 ( 81 moves of tough grinding)
GM Plaskett 0.5 – 0.5 Hrisanthoploulos 1995
GM Chris Ward 0.5 – 0.5 Popadimitrios 1943

Here is what Stewart Reuben had to say about our opponent's level of play even before they did so well against England 1 , in a match which we could have done with winning 4-0 for tie-break purposes. ''It is totally inexplicable that such low rated players can have done so well in this event. In board order their 4 players have gained 21.2, 54.6, 28.2 and 59.2 rating points...'' [Report on ECF site].

I guess this is a tired old story now, but not completely uninteresting in the context of how it is possible for senior players to revert back to the levels of play of their best years, given enough motivation to do so - and being the home team perhaps provided them with that extra inspiration.

Kevin Thurlow
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Re: World Senior Team Championships Rhodes 2019

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Tue Apr 30, 2019 8:27 am

"I guess this is a tired old story now, but not completely uninteresting in the context of how it is possible for senior players to revert back to the levels of play of their best years, given enough motivation to do so - and being the home team perhaps provided them with that extra inspiration."

I think this is a reasonable explanation. Even I play a good game sometimes, and that must apply to senior players in general.

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: World Senior Team Championships Rhodes 2019

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Tue Apr 30, 2019 10:23 am

Hi Keith (if you are still reading this thread). You said that a 4-0 against the Greeks would have helped the England 50+ team in their tie-break. I've not yet seen a report on the final round of the 50+ event, but am I right in thinking that a win by England against the German team they were playing would have secured bronze? What is not clear is how obvious that was during the course of the round (i.e. how things were going in other matches). Do you remember how things developed in that round and whether things did all hinge on the game by John Emms and whether that was the last game to finish?

Keith Arkell
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Re: World Senior Team Championships Rhodes 2019

Post by Keith Arkell » Wed May 01, 2019 1:36 am

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 10:23 am
Hi Keith (if you are still reading this thread). You said that a 4-0 against the Greeks would have helped the England 50+ team in their tie-break. I've not yet seen a report on the final round of the 50+ event, but am I right in thinking that a win by England against the German team they were playing would have secured bronze? What is not clear is how obvious that was during the course of the round (i.e. how things were going in other matches). Do you remember how things developed in that round and whether things did all hinge on the game by John Emms and whether that was the last game to finish?
Hi Christopher, going into the match v Germany we had no sense at all of how the other matches would go.There were loads of permutations. One, for example, involved Iceland drawing with Israel, Armenia v Italy being decisive and England winning 3:1, which would have led to Bronze on tiebreak. As it turned out any kind of win v Germany would have gained us Bronze.

If I remember correctly John was the last to finish, in a roller-coaster of a game.

I'm not sure what the value of bronze is, compared to our actual finish of 3= but with an inferior tie-break. I have played in the team on each of the five previous years and I think we always finished in either the Silver or the Bronze position, but what we are always really after is Gold. We have come extremely close on 2 occasions: 2014 and 2018.

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: World Senior Team Championships Rhodes 2019

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Wed May 01, 2019 12:13 pm

Thanks, Keith, for the account of what happened. Here's hoping an England team gets gold in a senior event at some point. Will the strongest opposition likely come from Russia and the USA?

NickFaulks
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Re: World Senior Team Championships Rhodes 2019

Post by NickFaulks » Wed May 01, 2019 5:47 pm

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:
Wed May 01, 2019 12:13 pm
Will the strongest opposition likely come from Russia and the USA?
Russia does not seem inclined to put out a competitive team at 50+ level. Nor do the Israelis, who would be pretty hot if they did.

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