ENTRY FEES FOR THE EUROPEAN SENIORS TEAM CHAMPIONSHIP

Information and discussion on all matters relating to Seniors Chess.
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Ken Norman
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ENTRY FEES FOR THE EUROPEAN SENIORS TEAM CHAMPIONSHIP

Post by Ken Norman » Sun Oct 13, 2013 5:07 pm

On another part of the forum Jonathan Rogers posted this comment.

“To repeat (to some extent) my views, the ECF should be prepared to support all people who represent the ECF. The current director actually openly ignores completely a number of other events which fall under the international domain (senior team events, European Club Cup, doubtless there are others); but in principle everyone who represents the ECF is entitled to some basic level of support. I think that in some cases (European Club Cup, for example) just paying the entry fee, symbolic gesture though it is, may suffice. It is reasonable to set the "basic minimum" level of support rather higher for the national teams, and here finding the money for travel and accommodation - in the case of the European team events - plus the expenses of a coach as well could be the starting "ring fenced" minimum for each team.”

I agree with his comment that the Entry fee for every team representing England should be paid by the Federation.

At this years European Seniors Team Championship the entry fee for the Scottish and Welsh teams was paid by their federations. The English players as usual paid the entry fee themselves.

When I first started playing in the European Seniors Team Championship the entry fee was paid by the ECF.

Then some years ago when Lawrence Copper became International Director he changed the policy and refused to pay the Entry fee for the English European Seniors Team.

Some people are not aware that the ECF does not have a budget for Seniors Chess. Any English players competing in a Seniors Event pays all the cost themselves.

I have had players offering to play in the European Seniors Team Championship in the expectation of a free holiday. When they are informed that they will have to pay all the costs themselves their enthusiasm has tended to evaporate.

The current situation does have the advantage that the players who travel abroad to play in Seniors events are the most dedicated and enthusiastic of the English Senior Players.

Ian Thompson
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Re: ENTRY FEES FOR THE EUROPEAN SENIORS TEAM CHAMPIONSHIP

Post by Ian Thompson » Sun Oct 13, 2013 5:50 pm

Ken Norman wrote:On another part of the forum Jonathan Rogers posted this comment.

“To repeat (to some extent) my views, the ECF should be prepared to support all people who represent the ECF. The current director actually openly ignores completely a number of other events which fall under the international domain (senior team events, European Club Cup, doubtless there are others); but in principle everyone who represents the ECF is entitled to some basic level of support. I think that in some cases (European Club Cup, for example) just paying the entry fee, symbolic gesture though it is, may suffice...”

I agree with his comment that the Entry fee for every team representing England should be paid by the Federation.
I think there have to be limits on this, both in the number of teams the ECF is supporting and the standard of the players in them. There is both the question of whether teams or individuals who are not very good in comparison to their peers should be allowed to represent England at all (and this applies to all age groups, not just seniors), and then whether the ECF should pay any of their costs. I would say no to both.

If we're talking about our best teams/players then it's different. I think the ECF should definitely support them.

Ken Norman
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Re: ENTRY FEES FOR THE EUROPEAN SENIORS TEAM CHAMPIONSHIP

Post by Ken Norman » Sun Oct 13, 2013 7:38 pm

So Ian it’s OK for the Scots and Welsh and all the other national teams to have the entry fee for the European Seniors Team Championship paid by their national federations.

But not the English.

Ian Thompson
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Re: ENTRY FEES FOR THE EUROPEAN SENIORS TEAM CHAMPIONSHIP

Post by Ian Thompson » Sun Oct 13, 2013 8:17 pm

Ken Norman wrote:So Ian it’s OK for the Scots and Welsh and all the other national teams to have the entry fee for the European Seniors Team Championship paid by their national federations.

But not the English.
My views would be the same if I was Scottish, Welsh, or from anywhere else. I would not be in favour of the national federation allowing all and sundry to represent them, or of them subsidising the cost. I'd still think that even if the ECF had unlimited funds and could afford to pay.

Sean Hewitt
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Re: ENTRY FEES FOR THE EUROPEAN SENIORS TEAM CHAMPIONSHIP

Post by Sean Hewitt » Sun Oct 13, 2013 11:57 pm

The ECF can pay for anything and everything the members want it too. For every extra pound that we choose to spend you have to make a choice (in simplistic terms)

1) Stop spending money on something elsewhere
2) Put up membership fees
3) Raise additional revenues

I don't think this fact should act as blocker, but as an enabler. Having exhausted potential donors / sponsors we could, for example, find an extra £4k for the International Budget by

i) increasing 50p on all memberships or
ii) increasing £2 on gold membership only
iii) stop spending £4k elsewhere

It's certainly a debate worth having in my opinion.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: ENTRY FEES FOR THE EUROPEAN SENIORS TEAM CHAMPIONSHIP

Post by Roger de Coverly » Mon Oct 14, 2013 12:03 am

Sean Hewitt wrote: Having exhausted potential donors / sponsors we could, for example, find an extra £4k for the International Budget by

i) increasing 50p on all memberships
Under similar circumstances, this had the NCCU frothing at the mouth when a 2p rise was proposed in Game Fee. This would have added perhaps 10p to a Congress entry fee and a £1 to a league one for a 5 player team.

LawrenceCooper
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Re: ENTRY FEES FOR THE EUROPEAN SENIORS TEAM CHAMPIONSHIP

Post by LawrenceCooper » Mon Oct 14, 2013 8:55 am

Ken Norman wrote:
Then some years ago when Lawrence Copper became International Director he changed the policy and refused to pay the Entry fee for the English European Seniors Team.
I can hopefully speak for Lawrence Copper. Regarding your comment that I changed the policy and refused to pay the entry fees, it may have given more balance to your point had you mentioned that the ECF had lost the government grant and that lots of cutbacks had been necessary. Bearing in mind that the England open captain voluntarily went without a fee in 2009-2011 and one of the two England coaches at the 2012 World Youth coaching four players over thirteen rounds did likewise I would suggest that attacking me isn't the most productive way of proceeding.

Ken Norman
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Re: ENTRY FEES FOR THE EUROPEAN SENIORS TEAM CHAMPIONSHIP

Post by Ken Norman » Mon Oct 14, 2013 10:46 am

LawrenceCooper wrote:
Ken Norman wrote:
Then some years ago when Lawrence Copper became International Director he changed the policy and refused to pay the Entry fee for the English European Seniors Team.
I can hopefully speak for Lawrence Copper. Regarding your comment that I changed the policy and refused to pay the entry fees, it may have given more balance to your point had you mentioned that the ECF had lost the government grant and that lots of cutbacks had been necessary. Bearing in mind that the England open captain voluntarily went without a fee in 2009-2011 and one of the two England coaches at the 2012 World Youth coaching four players over thirteen rounds did likewise I would suggest that attacking me isn't the most productive way of proceeding.

Lawrence,

I do not understand why you regard my statement as an attack on yourself.

If it sounded like a personal attack then I am sorry that was not my intention. It was simply a statement of the information given to me.

The only financial assistance given to Seniors Chess in England was to pay the entry fee for the European Seniors Team Championship. So the decision to cease paying the entry fee removed ALL funding from the ECF for Seniors Chess.

If you are saying that this decision to withdraw funding was not taken during your term in office as International Director then I apologise for posting incorrect information.

Alternatively if you are trying to say that the instruction to stop funding Seniors Chess was given to you by others. Then would you please name those responsible for this decision.

The current situation is that even Scotland and Wales with their limited financial resources were able to pay this year’s entry fee for their national teams.

As far as I am aware the only national teams playing in this years European Seniors Team Championships not to receive any financial assistance from their federations were Belgium and England.

I hope you agree with me that this is not a satisfactory situation.

John Upham
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Re: ENTRY FEES FOR THE EUROPEAN SENIORS TEAM CHAMPIONSHIP

Post by John Upham » Mon Oct 14, 2013 11:12 am

Ken,

I believe there are a number of funds and bodies which claim to support chess by way of grants, awards, bursaries and stipends. For example, The Friends of Chess.

Of all of these is it worth appealing to any of them for help?

Best wishes,

J.

Ken Norman
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Re: ENTRY FEES FOR THE EUROPEAN SENIORS TEAM CHAMPIONSHIP

Post by Ken Norman » Mon Oct 14, 2013 11:28 am

John Upham wrote:Ken,

I believe there are a number of funds and bodies which claim to support chess by way of grants, awards, bursaries and stipends. For example, The Friends of Chess.

Of all of these is it worth appealing to any of them for help?

Best wishes,

J.
John,

Thank you for the suggestion but those of us who play in the England Seniors team are happy for it to continue to be self funding.

We do however feel strongly that the entry fee should be paid by the ECF.

Mick Norris
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Re: ENTRY FEES FOR THE EUROPEAN SENIORS TEAM CHAMPIONSHIP

Post by Mick Norris » Mon Oct 14, 2013 11:49 am

How much is the entry fee?
Any postings on here represent my personal views and should not be taken as representative of the Manchester Chess Federation www.manchesterchess.co.uk

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Adam Raoof
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Re: ENTRY FEES FOR THE EUROPEAN SENIORS TEAM CHAMPIONSHIP

Post by Adam Raoof » Mon Oct 14, 2013 11:54 am

Mick Norris wrote:How much is the entry fee?
Entry fee:
The entry fee is 40.-€ per named player.
This means a maximum of 200.- € per team. The entry fee shall be paid together with the registration to
the following account:
Ostsächsische Sparkasse Dresden, acc. number: 312 007 0105, bank code: 850 503 00,
IBAN: DE 91 8505 0300 3120 070 105, BIC: OSDDDE81
In accordance with the ECU regulations, each team is obliged to make the payment of 100 € for the fee.
According to the ECU regulations (Art. B.9.5.1), the entry fee shall be paid by the federations to the
ECU before or at the start of the competition. If the entry fee is not paid until the end of round 2, these
teams will not be paired in subsequent rounds.

Mick Norris
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Re: ENTRY FEES FOR THE EUROPEAN SENIORS TEAM CHAMPIONSHIP

Post by Mick Norris » Mon Oct 14, 2013 11:57 am

And we sent 3 teams this year?
Any postings on here represent my personal views and should not be taken as representative of the Manchester Chess Federation www.manchesterchess.co.uk

Ken Norman
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Re: ENTRY FEES FOR THE EUROPEAN SENIORS TEAM CHAMPIONSHIP

Post by Ken Norman » Mon Oct 14, 2013 12:14 pm

Mick Norris wrote:And we sent 3 teams this year?

That is correct. So the total paid by the English players was 900 Euro's.

Next years World Seniors Team Championship has an entry fee of 250 Euro’s per team of five players. Plus a FIDE fee of 100 Euro’s per team.
Total cost per team 350 Euro’s.

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