World Senior Chess Championship S50

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Leonard Barden
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Re: World Senior Chess Championship S50

Post by Leonard Barden » Mon Nov 03, 2014 7:02 pm

Rk. SNo Name FED Rtg Pts. TB1 TB2 TB3 TB4 TB5
1 3 GM Sturua Zurab GEO 2523 8.0 0.5 56.5 61.5 5 6
2 8 GM Arkell Keith C ENG 2450 8.0 0.5 56.5 61.0 5 7

1 3 GM Sturua Zurab 2523 8 6½ GM Bischoff Klaus 2504 5
2 8 GM Arkell Keith C 2450 8 6½ IM Barle Janez 2338 11
3 27 Yasin Hur 2138 6½ 7 GM Nunn John D M 2602 1
4 6 GM Movsziszian Karen 2487 6½ 6½ GM Sveshnikov Evgeny 2517 4
5 9 IM Bruno Fabio 2422 6½ 6 IM Kalegin Evgenij 2474 7
6 12 IM Stepovoj Vladimir 2323 6 6 GM Hebden Mark L 2540 2

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: World Senior Chess Championship S50

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Mon Nov 03, 2014 7:12 pm

Amazing result. Wonder how long it took Keith to spot that Sveshnikov had trapped his own queen. Feel a bit sorry for Sveshnikov. Hope the pairings are kind. Is Keith guaranteed a medal of some colour?

LawrenceCooper
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Re: World Senior Chess Championship S50

Post by LawrenceCooper » Mon Nov 03, 2014 7:13 pm

1 3 GM Sturua Zurab 2523 8 6½ GM Bischoff Klaus 2504 5
2 8 GM Arkell Keith C 2450 8 6½ IM Barle Janez 2338 11
3 27 Yasin Hur 2138 6½ 7 GM Nunn John D M 2602 1

Mick Norris
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Re: World Senior Chess Championship S50

Post by Mick Norris » Mon Nov 03, 2014 8:37 pm

Rank after Round 10
Rk. SNo Name FED Rtg Pts. TB1 TB2 TB3 TB4 TB5
1 3 GM Sturua Zurab GEO 2523 8.0 0.5 56.5 61.5 5 6
2 8 GM Arkell Keith C ENG 2450 8.0 0.5 56.5 61.0 5 7
3 1 GM Nunn John D M ENG 2602 7.0 0.0 59.0 64.5 4 6
4 4 GM Sveshnikov Evgeny LAT 2517 6.5 0.0 60.0 65.5 4 4
5 5 GM Bischoff Klaus GER 2504 6.5 0.0 55.0 60.0 5 4
6 11 IM Barle Janez SLO 2338 6.5 0.0 54.5 59.0 5 5
7 9 IM Bruno Fabio ITA 2422 6.5 0.0 52.5 57.0 5 6
8 27 Yasin Hur TUR 2138 6.5 0.0 50.5 53.5 5 6
9 6 GM Movsziszian Karen ARM 2487 6.5 0.0 50.0 54.5 5 6
10 2 GM Hebden Mark L ENG 2540 6.0 0.0 57.5 62.0 4 5
11 7 IM Kalegin Evgenij RUS 2474 6.0 0.0 54.5 58.5 5 5
12 12 IM Stepovoj Vladimir RUS 2323 6.0 0.0 50.0 54.0 5 5

John can't overtake Sturua, as he lost their individual encounter, but a win guarantees at least bronze

If Keith lost, he would get bronze and John silver I assume on tiebreak

If Keith finishes on the same points as Sturua, you can see their individual tiebreaks are very close, so it would probably come down to a result of someone down the scale

Sturua won't find it easy to beat Bischoff, although neither will Keith against Barle I'd make him a slight favourite

Fabulous 10 rounds, though, lots of skill and a bit of luck

C'mon Keith :D
Any postings on here represent my personal views and should not be taken as representative of the Manchester Chess Federation www.manchesterchess.co.uk

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: World Senior Chess Championship S50

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Tue Nov 04, 2014 8:20 am

If they both win or both draw (or even both lose?), it could be an agonising wait for other games to finish. The really difficult scenario is if one game has been drawn, and the other player doesn't know what result is needed. Best of luck to Keith and the others in their games!

Chris Rice
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Re: World Senior Chess Championship S50

Post by Chris Rice » Tue Nov 04, 2014 8:38 am

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:If they both win or both draw (or even both lose?), it could be an agonising wait for other games to finish. The really difficult scenario is if one game has been drawn, and the other player doesn't know what result is needed. Best of luck to Keith and the others in their games!
After reading what you say there Christopher I can't help thinking that deciding a world champion on sum of opponents scores is not an appropriate tie-break system for this type of event. Perhaps better to have co-winners or if there has to be a sole winner then a penalty shoot out in the form of rapid/blitz/Armageddon etc?

However, guess it is what it is and here's hoping that Keith becomes the World and European champion in the same year!

Mick Norris
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Re: World Senior Chess Championship S50

Post by Mick Norris » Tue Nov 04, 2014 9:31 am

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:If they both win or both draw (or even both lose?), it could be an agonising wait for other games to finish. The really difficult scenario is if one game has been drawn, and the other player doesn't know what result is needed. Best of luck to Keith and the others in their games!
Indeed, the key being the players that only 1 of them has played against

The game between Bruno (who has played Sturua) and Kalegin (who has played Keith) looks important

A win for Terry Chapman against someone who has played Sturua would be handy, for John against someone who has played Keith less so :roll:
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Stewart Reuben
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Re: World Senior Chess Championship S50

Post by Stewart Reuben » Tue Nov 04, 2014 9:53 am

Bucholz is not an apprpriate tiebreak system for any event, especially if one of the opponents has had a bye. That isn't so in this case.
Best is playoff. Many arbiters dislike it because it is more work. Also the games may have to start earlier.
Direct encounter is good, but here they drew. It means John Nunn cannot win, even if he wins and the other two lose, because he lost to Sturua.
Sum of Progressive Score is quite good. This has gone out of fashion because two players could face the same field, have the same results in a different order and one would win. For some foreign arbiters a defect is that it is too easy to understand and apply. It passes the intelligent 9 year old test.
The greater number of blacks isn't popular, but it is objective. But 55% blacks isn't thought important enough. Also it isn't complex enough.
The purpose of the greater number of wins is, of course, to encourage more positive chess. It suffers from the problem that this also means the greatst number of losses. So it isn't logical, but has logical objectives.
Having no tiebreak, as in Hastings this year, didn't work out at all well. 7 people tied for first, which is rather ridiculous.

David Sedgwick
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Re: World Senior Chess Championship S50

Post by David Sedgwick » Tue Nov 04, 2014 10:05 am

Stewart Reuben wrote:Sum of Progressive Score is quite good. This has gone out of fashion because two players could face the same field, have the same results in a different order and one would win.
Something of the kind happened in Guernsey one year. Three GMs took part. They all played each other and all three games were drawn. They all won their other five games to tie for first place on 6/7.

So SPS would have favoured the one who remained on 100% when the other two were drawing with each other. I made an arbitrary decision to apply Bucholz instead.

Fortunately, the Regulations specified that the prize money would be shared. No-one appealed. It might have been a different matter if something more than a trophy had been at stake.

David Sedgwick
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Re: World Senior Chess Championship S50

Post by David Sedgwick » Tue Nov 04, 2014 10:06 am

Reverting to the actual chess, I'd like to point out that play today starts one hour earlier, at 1300 GMT.

John Cox
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Re: World Senior Chess Championship S50

Post by John Cox » Tue Nov 04, 2014 1:01 pm

Greatest number of wins is the worst of all tie-breaks, as you'd expect from something used by FIDE to determine the challenger from the world championship, of course. Fewest number of wins would be better (as would tossing a coin, an eating contest or an Elvis Presley lookalike competition, to name only the first three possibilities that come to mind).

IT's OK for exhibition events, but in any serious tournament, the reality is that chess is a war game and, like any war, the most important ability is not to lose.

Anyway, c'mon on Keith. And Kalegin, of course.


benedgell
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Re: World Senior Chess Championship S50

Post by benedgell » Tue Nov 04, 2014 1:05 pm

Fingers crossed for Keith and Klaus.

Simon Brown
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Re: World Senior Chess Championship S50

Post by Simon Brown » Tue Nov 04, 2014 3:17 pm

I think Sturua and Keith have had seven opponents in common, including each other, so the other four are relevant. Two of Sturua's have already drawn, and two of Keith's appear to be material ahead with good chances. The game between Bruno and Kalegin looks very unclear; Sturua's last one is a little worse against Terry, and Keith's last one is worse against John. So if it goes to tiebreaks, Keith's prospects looking better than three hours ago.

Simon Brown
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Re: World Senior Chess Championship S50

Post by Simon Brown » Tue Nov 04, 2014 3:27 pm

Sturua has drawn. Keith has one of those positions he seems to rather like.

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