"Irish Senior Championship" is not a Seniors event

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Tim Harding
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"Irish Senior Championship" is not a Seniors event

Postby Tim Harding » Fri May 01, 2015 6:16 pm

The Irish Chess Union recently and belatedly announced the 2014 Irish Championships (at its current temporary site http://www.irishchessunion.net/) to be held in Dublin 4-12 July, but some people may be puzzled why the top event is called the Irish Senior Championship.

Anywhere else in the chess world that I am aware of, the word "Senior" denotes an event for players 50 years old or more (sometimes 60+ or 65+).

Now that real seniors events are proliferating, why does the Irish Chess Union persist in using this misleading term which sometimes gets into databases, causing further confusion?

The problem seems to be that for many years the term "Junior" has been used to designate events for low-rated players (as well as, sometimes, for events for young players which is what the term means just about anywhere else in the world). So "Senior" gets used for events for higher-rated players, not just at the Irish championships.

I suppose it's too late to change for 2015 but they really should before next year. I am considering drafting a motion for the next ICU agm (due in the autumn) to have the terms Junior and Senior used only in their universally understood sense. (Though the agm will probably have much more contentious issues on the agenda.)

I would have queried this matter on the ICU website but I find that since it changed, my login no longer works. I put in my email address to get a new password and it doesn't recognise anyone registered with that email. Moreover http://www.irishchessunion.net/ doesn't have an option to register.

That's why I am posting this year, in case somebody from the Irish Chess Union reads this forum...

Any suggestions?
Tim Harding
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John Upham
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Re: "Irish Senior Championship" is not a Seniors event

Postby John Upham » Fri May 01, 2015 11:11 pm

Tim,

Your sound argument for change is most likely to be met by the dullards riposte "We've always done it this way so why do we need to change" followed by the quip "If it ain't broke then don't fix it" and "Can we move onto AOB please?".

For this and other reasons I have abandoned the need to attend AGMs, EGMs, SGMs or any other variety of GM.

Good luck with your quest!

John McKenna
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Re: "Irish Senior Championship" is not a Seniors event

Postby John McKenna » Sat May 02, 2015 12:44 am

Is it not customary to use the word veterans for the oldest when seniors is used just to differentiate the men from the boys?
To find a for(u)m that accommodates the mess, that is the task of the artist now. (Samuel Beckett)

Tim Harding
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Re: "Irish Senior Championship" is not a Seniors event

Postby Tim Harding » Sat May 02, 2015 12:13 pm

John McKenna wrote:Is it not customary to use the word veterans for the oldest when seniors is used just to differentiate the men from the boys?


I don't think so, at least not officially in chess. The term Seniors is being used worldwide (except in Ireland).

Even the ECF are calling the 50+ and 65+ tournaments this year the Seniors instead of Veterans.
Tim Harding
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Author of 'Joseph Henry Blackburne: A Chess Biography' and 'Eminent Victorian Chess Players'
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John McKenna
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Re: "Irish Senior Championship" is not a Seniors event

Postby John McKenna » Sat May 02, 2015 12:26 pm

Tim, the French have certainly confused things by using Cadet(te), Junior(ette), Senior and Veteran (with appriate accents).
To find a for(u)m that accommodates the mess, that is the task of the artist now. (Samuel Beckett)

Tim Harding
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Re: "Irish Senior Championship" is not a Seniors event

Postby Tim Harding » Sat May 02, 2015 12:52 pm

John McKenna wrote:Tim, the French have certainly confused things by using Cadet(te), Junior(ette), Senior and Veteran (with appriate accents).



OKay, point taken. But presumably even the French don't call their main national championship the Senior Championship?
Tim Harding
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Author of 'Joseph Henry Blackburne: A Chess Biography' and 'Eminent Victorian Chess Players'
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John McKenna
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Re: "Irish Senior Championship" is not a Seniors event

Postby John McKenna » Sat May 02, 2015 1:15 pm

Indeed not - Championnat de France seems to suffice.
Keeping it nice and simple is always best.
To find a for(u)m that accommodates the mess, that is the task of the artist now. (Samuel Beckett)

MJMcCready
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Re: "Irish Senior Championship" is not a Seniors event

Postby MJMcCready » Sat May 02, 2015 9:12 pm

Tim Harding wrote:
Anywhere else in the chess world that I am aware of, the word "Senior" denotes an event for players 50 years old or more (sometimes 60+ or 65+).



Very strange, I've played in tournaments where the age range for seniors has been extended to allow greater competition, at one it went to +40, to ensure a 3rd place could be awarded with a prize but I've never heard of a tournament called 'Senior', as you say, its clearly a misnomer. At least they don't have a 'Minor' section open to seniors, that would be confusing.

Stewart Reuben
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Re: "Irish Senior Championship" is not a Seniors event

Postby Stewart Reuben » Wed May 20, 2015 3:58 am

The term 'veteran' is now used in England to refer to people who have been in the Armed Services. FIDE tend to follow English practice in terminology.
I use the term 50+, 60+ or 65+ for the various senior events. But this has not been widely copied. One problem is that you can be 49 and play in a 50+ event, provided yo are 50 by 31 December.

Without thinking, for the British Rail Championship of 1985 I awarded a Veterans prize. The eligible players had to be over 30!
The Evening Standard Congresses from 1972 had Veterans Prizes. These became One glass of Cutty Sark Whisky a day for a Year. That was 12 bottles. The Veterans had to be 40+; even so there were few players eligible.

More interestingly, it used to be British Ladies' Championship but was changed at the behest of the Eagle twins to British Womens. Recently Gibraltar has donated an engraved trophy for the English Ladies Championship. I wish they hadn't!


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