British Online Chess Championships 18th December 2020 to 3rd January 2021

Details of upcoming UK events, please provide working links if possible.
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Ian Thompson
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Re: British Online Chess Championships 18th December 2020 to 3rd January 2021

Post by Ian Thompson » Fri Dec 18, 2020 10:34 pm

Ian Thompson wrote:
Sat Dec 12, 2020 1:26 pm
With 902 entries to date, the event seems quite popular, although it's not obvious how many people have entered multiple events to determine the number of different people taking part.
Now an impressive entry list of more than 2000, but no easy way of telling how many different players there are in total.

Not so impressive is that 40% of games in the first round of the Championship Qualifier were walkovers.

jholyhead
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Re: British Online Chess Championships 18th December 2020 to 3rd January 2021

Post by jholyhead » Fri Dec 18, 2020 10:54 pm

From a quick look - it's about 629 unique entries, based solely on unique names on the website - if there's 100 John Smiths out there, I can't account for that.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: British Online Chess Championships 18th December 2020 to 3rd January 2021

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sat Dec 19, 2020 1:26 am

Ian Thompson wrote:
Fri Dec 18, 2020 10:34 pm
Now an impressive entry list of more than 2000, but no easy way of telling how many different players there are in total.
Being defaulted over the summer during the Glorney etc. junior team events doesn't seem to have been a barrier to participation.

Kevin Thurlow
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Re: British Online Chess Championships 18th December 2020 to 3rd January 2021

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Sat Dec 19, 2020 10:24 am

"Being defaulted over the summer during the Glorney etc. junior team events doesn't seem to have been a barrier to participation."

I'm told subsequent appearances have been free of cheating, so that's all right.

David Sedgwick
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Re: British Online Chess Championships 18th December 2020 to 3rd January 2021

Post by David Sedgwick » Sat Dec 19, 2020 11:33 am

Kevin Thurlow wrote:
Sat Dec 19, 2020 10:24 am
"Being defaulted over the summer during the Glorney etc. junior team events doesn't seem to have been a barrier to participation."

I'm told subsequent appearances have been free of cheating, so that's all right.
That is a rather pejorative way of putting it.

There are ongoing issues about the extent to which players should be banned not just from a current event, but from future events, on the basis of purely circumstantial evidence.

I have seen at first hand the major efforts which were made to prevent cheating at the Online Junior County Championships and which are now being made at the Caplin British Online Championships. To a considerable extent, it wasn't so much that players didn't cheat again but that they couldn't.

It is of course essential that we continue to be vigilant.

Joseph Conlon
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Re: British Online Chess Championships 18th December 2020 to 3rd January 2021

Post by Joseph Conlon » Sat Dec 19, 2020 1:12 pm

I'm not sure 'relieved' is quite the right emotion to describe my feelings on successfully defeating an 8 year old. However when playing one's part in the development of talented juniors it is certainly preferable to be on the right side of the result rather than acting as a marker of their growing ability.

Tim Harding
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Re: British Online Chess Championships 18th December 2020 to 3rd January 2021

Post by Tim Harding » Sat Dec 19, 2020 4:01 pm

David Sedgwick wrote:
Sat Dec 19, 2020 11:33 am
I have seen at first hand the major efforts which were made to prevent cheating at the Online Junior County Championships and which are now being made at the Caplin British Online Championships. To a considerable extent, it wasn't so much that players didn't cheat again but that they couldn't.

It is of course essential that we continue to be vigilant.
As an arbiter (though not on this occasion) and player, I am curious about how requiring players' computers not to face a door or window prevents cheating.

If it's a trade secret, please reply by PM.
Tim Harding
Historian and FIDE Arbiter

Author of 'Steinitz in London,' British Chess Literature to 1914', 'Joseph Henry Blackburne: A Chess Biography', and 'Eminent Victorian Chess Players'
http://www.chessmail.com

Wadih Khoury
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Re: British Online Chess Championships 18th December 2020 to 3rd January 2021

Post by Wadih Khoury » Sat Dec 19, 2020 6:23 pm

Tim Harding wrote:
Sat Dec 19, 2020 4:01 pm
David Sedgwick wrote:
Sat Dec 19, 2020 11:33 am
I have seen at first hand the major efforts which were made to prevent cheating at the Online Junior County Championships and which are now being made at the Caplin British Online Championships. To a considerable extent, it wasn't so much that players didn't cheat again but that they couldn't.

It is of course essential that we continue to be vigilant.
As an arbiter (though not on this occasion) and player, I am curious about how requiring players' computers not to face a door or window prevents cheating.

If it's a trade secret, please reply by PM.
To prevent mom/dad/sibling/friend/coach from communicating into the room?
The ease and potential of cheating with something in the player's eyesight but not on cam is great. And doors/windows make it easy for the evidence to disappear and hide.

Ian Thompson
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Re: British Online Chess Championships 18th December 2020 to 3rd January 2021

Post by Ian Thompson » Sat Dec 19, 2020 9:07 pm

Wadih Khoury wrote:
Sat Dec 19, 2020 6:23 pm
To prevent mom/dad/sibling/friend/coach from communicating into the room?
The ease and potential of cheating with something in the player's eyesight but not on cam is great. And doors/windows make it easy for the evidence to disappear and hide.
Perhaps mirrors in the room should have been banned as well.

Kevin Thurlow
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Re: British Online Chess Championships 18th December 2020 to 3rd January 2021

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Sat Dec 19, 2020 9:48 pm

"The ease and potential of cheating with something in the player's eyesight but not on cam is great."

Well, yes - we have a handy big screen so if I played normal length games, I could easily plug my computer into that so someone else can see what the position is, run software and then show me what move to make. Meanwhile, I could be on camera looking innocently at my screen.

Wadih Khoury
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Re: British Online Chess Championships 18th December 2020 to 3rd January 2021

Post by Wadih Khoury » Sun Dec 20, 2020 7:20 am

Kevin Thurlow wrote:
Sat Dec 19, 2020 9:48 pm
"The ease and potential of cheating with something in the player's eyesight but not on cam is great."

Well, yes - we have a handy big screen so if I played normal length games, I could easily plug my computer into that so someone else can see what the position is, run software and then show me what move to make. Meanwhile, I could be on camera looking innocently at my screen.
And hence why screen sharing should be mandatory.

But I am now genuinely missing everyone's point here. What are you all therefore recommending?
  • Cheating is not an issue and we should not have to put up with annoyances?
  • Anyone who self identifies as not a cheater should not have to put up with such measures?
  • It is impossible to prevent cheating, hence the whole tournament should be called off?
  • Most people don't care about facing a cheater because they play in the middle or bottom of the rankings. Who cares about the top boards given the inconvenience?
  • I live alone, why should I bear the inconvenience of measures aimed at pesky juniors receiving help from family?
  • Etc...
I see a lot of complaints against almost every single anti cheating measures. From statistical or human reviews, to audio/video, to specific measures grounded in observation of cheating behaviours.

What do you all propose? I genuinely do not recall a single measure put forward (beyond let's make sure nobody plays serious chess).

Matt Bridgeman
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Re: British Online Chess Championships 18th December 2020 to 3rd January 2021

Post by Matt Bridgeman » Sun Dec 20, 2020 2:32 pm

Not in this tournament, but for some people who might be asked in other tournaments in the New Year to set up a second camera facing at the players back (or wide angle, or whatever they ask for?!) - Are there any tips on budget options, and is it difficult setting a second camera up?

Roger de Coverly
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Re: British Online Chess Championships 18th December 2020 to 3rd January 2021

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sun Dec 20, 2020 2:39 pm

Wadih Khoury wrote:
Sun Dec 20, 2020 7:20 am
What do you all propose? I genuinely do not recall a single measure put forward (beyond let's make sure nobody plays serious chess).
Unless or until I'm prepared to set up a home video studio, I'm taking a break from "serious" chess.

NickFaulks
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Re: British Online Chess Championships 18th December 2020 to 3rd January 2021

Post by NickFaulks » Sun Dec 20, 2020 3:39 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Sun Dec 20, 2020 2:39 pm
Unless or until I'm prepared to set up a home video studio, I'm taking a break from "serious" chess.
I took that decision months ago, have been sticking to friendly events.
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face — forever.

LawrenceCooper
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Re: British Online Chess Championships 18th December 2020 to 3rd January 2021

Post by LawrenceCooper » Sun Dec 20, 2020 9:42 pm

Matt Bridgeman wrote:
Sun Dec 20, 2020 2:32 pm
Not in this tournament, but for some people who might be asked in other tournaments in the New Year to set up a second camera facing at the players back (or wide angle, or whatever they ask for?!) - Are there any tips on budget options, and is it difficult setting a second camera up?
This dilemma cropped up at the European Women's Online Club Cup that started this weekend. Whilst the regulations prohibited laptops (apart from the one logged in to Tornelo) or mobiles in the room the organisers subsequently authorised use of laptops and mobiles to be used as the "side camera". They subsequently communicated that players using only the webcam on their laptop wouldn't be defaulted but would be at far greater risk if fair play checks flagged them.

This doesn't answer your question but it may be worth checking if a second laptop or mobile can be used before breaking the bank on cameras.

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