Yorkshire grading system

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MartinCarpenter
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Yorkshire grading system

Post by MartinCarpenter » Sat Apr 28, 2018 11:18 pm

Just following up on the earlier thread about this - I talked to the (shortly to retire!) Yorkshire grader today & it does seem like the Yorkshire grading system is coming to an end.

Principally of course this will make English chess a little more rational so is a firmly good thing in principle.

It is perhaps a bit concerning for some of the local leagues which feature very low current membership levels. If the players are stubborn about not joining up it could get rather messy with the fines.

Andrew Zigmond
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Re: Yorkshire grading system

Post by Andrew Zigmond » Tue May 01, 2018 12:07 am

The leagues have to vote to join the ECF grading structure first and are under no obligation to do so (some may simply opt to go ungraded). If they do vote to join it will be up to the individual leagues to decide how they manage players who refuse to join. If it gets `messy` it is solely a result of their own poor planning and communication.
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Alex Holowczak
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Re: Yorkshire grading system

Post by Alex Holowczak » Tue May 01, 2018 3:14 pm

Andrew Zigmond wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 12:07 am
The leagues have to vote to join the ECF grading structure first and are under no obligation to do so (some may simply opt to go ungraded). If they do vote to join it will be up to the individual leagues to decide how they manage players who refuse to join. If it gets `messy` it is solely a result of their own poor planning and communication.
I've had conversations by phone and e-mail with some League Secretaries in Yorkshire in the last few days, looking to get their leagues ECF-graded in 2018/19.

MartinCarpenter
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Re: Yorkshire grading system

Post by MartinCarpenter » Tue May 01, 2018 8:55 pm

Very good to hear that. I can't imagine (m)any leagues choosing to go ungraded - surely?!

I guess my slight worry is that because I find the whole reason/motivation for the original split utterly baffling I can't claim to understand how people might react to us moving over.

Eric Gardiner
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Re: Yorkshire grading system

Post by Eric Gardiner » Wed May 02, 2018 8:16 am

MartinCarpenter wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 8:55 pm
I guess my slight worry is that because I find the whole reason/motivation for the original split utterly baffling I can't claim to understand how people might react to us moving over.
People :? ? I would have thought most outside Yorkshire would think "thank goodness/deity/expletive for that" ! Or perhaps just not notice at all if not nearby.

I will miss the familiar green Chessnuts site though ...

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Yorkshire grading system

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed May 02, 2018 9:20 am

MartinCarpenter wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 8:55 pm
I find the whole reason/motivation for the original split utterly baffling
In the early days of national, as opposed to regional, grading, there was a year when the NCCU contrived not to send many or any results to the BCF. That may have persuaded Yorkshire to set up their own in house system. It also meant that they didn't have to pay any money for membership of a national body.

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Matt Mackenzie
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Re: Yorkshire grading system

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Wed May 02, 2018 2:06 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 9:20 am
MartinCarpenter wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 8:55 pm
I find the whole reason/motivation for the original split utterly baffling
In the early days of national, as opposed to regional, grading, there was a year when the NCCU contrived not to send many or any results to the BCF. That may have persuaded Yorkshire to set up their own in house system. It also meant that they didn't have to pay any money for membership of a national body.
IIRC that was in 1987.

(the story I heard was that the chief NCCU grader had most of his data - much then was still in paper form, of course - destroyed in a domestic with his wife/partner)

Yorkshire may have had its "own" list before then - but that undoubtedly gave it real impetus.
"Set up your attacks so that when the fire is out, it isn't out!" (H N Pillsbury)

NickFaulks
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Re: Yorkshire grading system

Post by NickFaulks » Wed May 02, 2018 2:31 pm

Should we be lamenting the end of what seems to have been a good and efficiently run operation or viewing this as the removal, not before time, of an anachronism? Probably both.

When I arrived in Bermuda in 1991, I found a national rating system administered very well by a club member. In due course he retired to Canada and the job fell to me, but I found it a great deal of work and instead moved all local competitions to the FIDE rating system. Before long the old system was not missed.

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Ihor Lewyk
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Re: Yorkshire grading system

Post by Ihor Lewyk » Wed May 02, 2018 3:09 pm

That's reassuring to know Nick. I think moving to ECF grading is inevitable. How quickly it is done is anybody's guess.
The next few weeks of Yorkshire local league AGMs will be interesting. I do expect ECF membership numbers in Yorkshire may be rising by the end of summer. It will be interesting to get a snapshot of membership numbers now and a year from now.

NickFaulks
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Re: Yorkshire grading system

Post by NickFaulks » Wed May 02, 2018 3:18 pm

Ihor Lewyk wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 3:09 pm
The next few weeks of Yorkshire local league AGMs will be interesting.
The Bermuda example was of course a much easier sell because the additional cost to members was negligible.

Andrew Zigmond
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Re: Yorkshire grading system

Post by Andrew Zigmond » Wed May 02, 2018 3:49 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 2:31 pm
Should we be lamenting the end of what seems to have been a good and efficiently run operation or viewing this as the removal, not before time, of an anachronism? Probably both.
The chessnuts grading site with its live grades and easy to use interface was quite groundbreaking at the time and was probably the first stage in transforming Yorkshire from a chuntering backwater into a forward thinking association. I may be wrong here but I think it remains unique in its ability to run a grading script automatically rather than necessitating results processed into a spreadsheet for the ECF software.

It will be a tug of war between those who still want to fight battles with the 1993 BCF and the younger generation who want all their chess to be part of a national grading database. There are probably a fair few `neutrals` who want to play more than glorified friendly games but don't care who does the actual grading. There is no requirement for a league to be graded and if some areas just want what some would call a `fun` league so be it. What could be interesting is how those who want to play rated chess regroup.

Let's not forget the other bastion of competitive play that everybody forgets about; individual club championships.
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MartinCarpenter
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Re: Yorkshire grading system

Post by MartinCarpenter » Wed May 02, 2018 7:52 pm

I've had a few (light hearted!) discussion with Jon about quite how useful the live grades really were, but he did an excellent job with the website. All the league/player statistics you could get off it were fascinating.

Years of league tables too.

Eric Gardiner
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Re: Yorkshire grading system

Post by Eric Gardiner » Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:48 pm

Does anyone know if it's Jon who is still updating the Chessnuts site with congress results or someone else? I visited the site today for the first time in a week or two and was surprised to see that the 4NCL congress results from earlier in the season had been inputted. However I did notice one mistake: Matthew Grattage appears to have played in both the 4NCL January Harrogate Open and Minor sections! The ECF grading database instead shows that Michael Grattage played in the Minor section. Obviously the person most disadvantaged is Matthew whereas one person who might read this appears to have benefitted :)

I don't want to trouble Jon with an email if someone else has been inputting the results.

Andrew Zigmond
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Re: Yorkshire grading system

Post by Andrew Zigmond » Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:34 am

Eric Gardiner wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:48 pm
The ECF grading database instead shows that Michael Grattage played in the Minor section. Obviously the person most disadvantaged is Matthew whereas one person who might read this appears to have benefitted :)
That person has duly emailed Jon.
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Eric Gardiner
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Re: Yorkshire grading system

Post by Eric Gardiner » Fri Jun 15, 2018 6:29 am

OK Andrew (I've also benefitted from two "free" points for months until the January congress results got entered!). That doesn't directly answer my original question but I imagine a new contact might be announced after tomorrow's YCA AGM. I understand the site will continue to exist for next season if only for updating league results so presumably there is still an interest in maintaining accuracy.

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