Offer of places for "England" team

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David Sedgwick
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Re: Offer of places for "England" team

Post by David Sedgwick » Thu Apr 07, 2022 9:18 pm

Joseph Conlon wrote:
Thu Apr 07, 2022 2:44 pm
... after all, [the National Chess Junior Squad] used to be called the BCF Junior Squad, until the BCF decided the name was inappropriate.
That was about 25 years ago, but I remember the episode well.

The BCF Management Board (as it then was) felt that they should have a degree of oversight over a body that used the word "BCF" in their title. The Squad management made it clear that they wished to operate entirely independently of the BCF.

So the Squad were asked, and agreed, to change their name to the National Chess Junior Squad. It was not envisaged that that would involve any changes in the Squad's modus operandi. In fact, as far as I can tell from this thread, that remains much the same today as it was then.

Angus French
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Re: Offer of places for "England" team

Post by Angus French » Thu Apr 07, 2022 10:26 pm

Andrew Martin wrote:
Thu Apr 07, 2022 7:13 pm
Peter Purland and other colleagues on the NJCS , some of whom Joe Conlon mentioned earlier, have made an extraordinary contribution to junior chess in the UK.

Peter has:

Organised countless tournaments
Organised countless trips abroad
Provided countless chess-related opportunities for young people over the last forty years or so.
Provided a level of encouragement and support to young people that hardly anyone in the UK chess scene can match.

Frankly, he should get a medal or some kind of lasting award for services to chess.

That is it.
Also, if I recall, Peter was ECF Director of Junior Chess for a time - I'm not sure how long - and is an ECF Honorary Life Vice-President... Didn't he used to organise the quiz at the British Championships?

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John Upham
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Re: Offer of places for "England" team

Post by John Upham » Fri Apr 08, 2022 12:27 am

Roger Lancaster wrote:
Thu Apr 07, 2022 9:00 pm
That's one view although, by the same token, if you accept that John Upham is doing an excellent job, you'd presumably go along - I instance John as an example in view of his earlier comments - with his organising yet another 'England' team.
For the avoidance of doubt (and I am sure everyone will hope that this is true) I have no* intention whatsoever of creating any junior teams claiming to represent any nation state including England.

Multiple adult 4NCL (Cavendish, then AMCA and finally BCM) teams is just about enough for me. A future Junior 4NCL Hampshire team is conjunction with Kim Shek (father of Daniel) is a real 2022 - 2023 prospect however.

*and this is not a politician's reply meaning the exact opposite!
Last edited by John Upham on Sat Apr 09, 2022 3:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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James Pratt
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Re: Offer of places for "England" team

Post by James Pratt » Sat Apr 09, 2022 12:08 pm

I don't think the National Junior Chess Squad needs changing to the - seemingly outmoded - name National Chess Junior Squad. I know that the Botvinnik School changed its name to that of Kramnik's, so maybe we could follow suit and have a Wade Squad and, dare I ask, what ever happened to the Barden Babes? Drawing their pensions are we to assume?

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Alan Ruffle
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Re: Offer of places for "England" team

Post by Alan Ruffle » Fri Jul 08, 2022 8:29 pm

Dear All

I am grateful to Mr. Wadih Khoury and Mr. John Townsend both seriously interested parents I assume.

They sum the situation up.

I refer them to “Selection Tournaments”. It solves all these problems.

Alan Ruffle

Roger Lancaster
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Re: Offer of places for "England" team

Post by Roger Lancaster » Sat Jul 09, 2022 12:30 pm

There's only one body, the Football Association, responsible for picking "England" football teams. That's despite the presence of other well-established English football bodies such as the Football League and the Premier League. I don't have in-depth knowledge of every other sport in this country but, as far as I am aware, the same principle applies in all significant sports - that there's a single national body responsible for selecting national teams. It's not obvious to me, even after reading previous posts, why chess should be an exception.

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: Offer of places for "England" team

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Sat Jul 09, 2022 12:49 pm

My impression is that junior chess international competitions are less codifed than the adult versions. Someone can correct me if I am wrong, but just like the ACO 'World Titles' I believe there are junior international events that are not run by or sanctioned by FIDE? There is also the phenomenon where junior chess organisations in different countries can operate exchange visits and matches between squads from each country, without it being a formal international event. Might this be one reason for different organisations being able to co-exist (I am using that word loosely)?

Roger Lancaster
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Re: Offer of places for "England" team

Post by Roger Lancaster » Sat Jul 09, 2022 1:21 pm

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:
Sat Jul 09, 2022 12:49 pm
My impression is that junior chess international competitions are less codifed than the adult versions. Someone can correct me if I am wrong, but just like the ACO 'World Titles' I believe there are junior international events that are not run by or sanctioned by FIDE? There is also the phenomenon where junior chess organisations in different countries can operate exchange visits and matches between squads from each country, without it being a formal international event. Might this be one reason for different organisations being able to co-exist (I am using that word loosely)?
Christopher, you're both right and wrong. You're right in that there are junior international events run and sanctioned by the European Chess Union. You're wrong in that ECU doesn't run and sanction junior events alone but also adult events - the European senior championships currently under way in Poland being a good example. (In football terms, it's a FIFA/UEFA parallel).

David Mabbs
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Re: Offer of places for "England" team

Post by David Mabbs » Wed Aug 17, 2022 4:05 pm

Forgive me - I've come late to this discussion about official v unofficial, and about junior opportunities in either cases, and about possibly misleading inferences etcetera. My own junior days go back way before those presently being discussed ... BUT might I refer people to a post that I have just made under Chess History, the thrust of which is, what were the activities of the "Chess Education Society" which was in operation for at least fourteen years (1945-1958) and maybe for longer ?

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