New International Junior Chess Organisation for Great Britain

National developments, strategies and ideas.
Mick Norris
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Re: New International Junior Chess Organisation for Great Britain

Post by Mick Norris » Sat May 25, 2019 1:47 pm

English players close together in round 8

17 45 FM Storey Charles H 2228 4½ 4½ FM Herrera Reyes Jose Antonio 2366 34
18 8 GM Gordon Stephen J 2533 4 4 FM De Prado Rodriguez Oscar Bruno 2183 52

20 46 Hill Alistair 2227 4 4 GM Hovhannisyan Mher 2454 17
Any postings on here represent my personal views and should not be taken as representative of the Manchester Chess Federation www.manchesterchess.co.uk

Matt Bridgeman
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Re: New International Junior Chess Organisation for Great Britain

Post by Matt Bridgeman » Sat May 25, 2019 2:29 pm

So is a 3rd and final IM norm possible for Charlie if the final two rounds go well? That would be a great achievement for a player in their late forties.

Mick Norris
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Re: New International Junior Chess Organisation for Great Britain

Post by Mick Norris » Sat May 25, 2019 2:34 pm

He's played 5 GMs, 8 different nationalities, so that's ok, but he needs to get the required performance level; realistically, he needs a win today as you'd expect him to be black tomorrow against a higher rated opponent

Based on Richard Bates' calculation above, he's currently at 2425 and needs 2450 for the IM norm
Any postings on here represent my personal views and should not be taken as representative of the Manchester Chess Federation www.manchesterchess.co.uk

LawrenceCooper
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Re: New International Junior Chess Organisation for Great Britain

Post by LawrenceCooper » Sat May 25, 2019 3:08 pm

Matt Bridgeman wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 2:29 pm
So is a 3rd and final IM norm possible for Charlie if the final two rounds go well? That would be a great achievement for a player in their late forties.
Does he definitely have two norms? The FIDE rating website only lists one: https://ratings.fide.com/title_norms.ph ... 6&title=IM

Matt Bridgeman
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Re: New International Junior Chess Organisation for Great Britain

Post by Matt Bridgeman » Sat May 25, 2019 3:10 pm

Charlie!! ...not again! Lol I just went off his recent Chessbase interview when he said two ...although to be fair he does say one is not yet official.

'CB: The Sniper brought you success, didn’t it?

CS: Considering I am a humble FM with two IM norms — one of which is under dispute! It is amazing I have won more opens than any other player in the UK save GM’s Arkell and Hebden who are dedicated professionals on the circuit and I have had the likes of Jonathan Hawkins, Tim Wall, Mihai Suba swimming around in the North East!'

https://en.chessbase.com/post/charlie-storey-story

Richard Bates
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Re: New International Junior Chess Organisation for Great Britain

Post by Richard Bates » Sat May 25, 2019 3:39 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 8:31 am
Richard Bates wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 7:06 am
It seems strange to blame Chess-results when all they are doing is showing the performance in accordance with FIDE regulations.
There are no such regulations.
(subject to the additional rating floor for the weakest opponent dependent on the norm category you are focussing on)
Without which the calculation is meaningless.
Don't really know what your point is, but i'm not going to get into a lengthy argument. The FIDE handbook defines how you calculate a performance rating. FIDE handbook then adds additional criteria which allow the performance rating to be amended for the purpose of norm calculations.

Chess-results provides a useful calculation, reflecting the basic definition by FIDE of a performance rating, that aids in the further calculation for norm purposes for those that understand them. It is hardly reasonable to expect them to provide calculations for the purposes of the latter, given that it would as a minimum involve providing up to 4 separate numbers (WIM/WGM/IM/GM), and even then would not be definitive given the range of other criteria (numerical and non-numerical) that define the validity of a norm. And as I say, in my opinion, the calculation is useful in providing the base for the norm calculation, and therefore far better than them not providing it at all, even if some may be misled by what it implies. I guess you disagree, so be it.
Last edited by Richard Bates on Sat May 25, 2019 3:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Ian Thompson
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Re: New International Junior Chess Organisation for Great Britain

Post by Ian Thompson » Sat May 25, 2019 3:40 pm

Matt Bridgeman wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 3:10 pm
Charlie Story: ... It is amazing I have won more opens than any other player in the UK save GM’s Arkell and Hebden ...
As his very wide definition of open includes OTB and online blitz tournaments I think you would also have to regardless this claim as questionable, and certainly not verifiable.

Richard Bates
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Re: New International Junior Chess Organisation for Great Britain

Post by Richard Bates » Sat May 25, 2019 3:43 pm

Matt Bridgeman wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 3:10 pm
Charlie!! ...not again! Lol I just went off his recent Chessbase interview when he said two ...although to be fair he does say one is not yet official.

'CB: The Sniper brought you success, didn’t it?

CS: Considering I am a humble FM with two IM norms — one of which is under dispute! It is amazing I have won more opens than any other player in the UK save GM’s Arkell and Hebden who are dedicated professionals on the circuit and I have had the likes of Jonathan Hawkins, Tim Wall, Mihai Suba swimming around in the North East!'

https://en.chessbase.com/post/charlie-storey-story
Ah, so the rule is that Charlie's rather loose definition of what constitutes an Open only actually applies to himself. Everyone else is presumably held to tougher standards. Or possibly simply haven't shown the same commitment to bullet competitions on the internet ;)

Matt Bridgeman
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Re: New International Junior Chess Organisation for Great Britain

Post by Matt Bridgeman » Sat May 25, 2019 4:29 pm

I think as long as you squint your eyes and smile, the 168 Opens claim, the 'Team GB' references (as long as Charlie keeps it off his merchandise and website banners), and the claim to being the 'Official' Great Britain team won't get him into too much trouble, although I suppose if the ECF really wanted to go for the jugular he might be asked politely by Trading Standards to amend some of his advertising on the last point.

It will be interesting to see how things progress into 2020. I can see that the Longson's Academy will have a annual fee of £450 (effectively what it already was), with less compulsory weekends (but with new regional bases), and added 'one to one' type interactivity, plus potential for additional discounted training with coaches. On the face of it their idea seems pretty reasonable and not geared as heavily as I feared towards profit making for the coaches involved. For instance, they have been quite upfront about their idea of an Academy being supplemental to junior players own coaching, which was pretty honest of them I thought.

I think the ball will be in Charlie's court to show he can provide some value for money to parents too. And dare I say this, you'd have to be barking mad to think paying £50 or £100 per hour for regular chess coaching is either sensible or necessary.

NickFaulks
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Re: New International Junior Chess Organisation for Great Britain

Post by NickFaulks » Sat May 25, 2019 5:29 pm

Matt Bridgeman wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 3:10 pm
CS: Considering I am a humble FM with two IM norms — one of which is under dispute!
Is anything known about this disputed norm? Who is disputing it?

Roger de Coverly
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Re: New International Junior Chess Organisation for Great Britain

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sat May 25, 2019 5:47 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 5:29 pm

Is anything known about this disputed norm? Who is disputing it?
If you go to the site
https://www.chessfunclubs.com/charlie_storey-cv/
which seems to be quite recently updated given the mention of December 2018 performances by Charlie's students, the only Norm claimed is from the British at Great Yarmouth in 2007. That was completely valid and featured some spectacular attacking play.

Looking at the FIDE ratings site, he hadn't played much in 2019, so there's no record of a recent performance that gets anywhere near IM Norm standard.

I suppose you could attempt to claim a Norm from a Blitz or Rapid tournament. FIDE or the national Federation would dispute it.

Paul Cooksey
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Re: New International Junior Chess Organisation for Great Britain

Post by Paul Cooksey » Sat May 25, 2019 6:08 pm

HIs CV says it is the 96/97 4NCL

NickFaulks
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Re: New International Junior Chess Organisation for Great Britain

Post by NickFaulks » Sat May 25, 2019 6:33 pm

Paul Cooksey wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 6:08 pm
HIs CV says it is the 96/97 4NCL
Thanks. If that hasn't been registered then it isn't disputed, it is stone dead

Richard Bates
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Re: New International Junior Chess Organisation for Great Britain

Post by Richard Bates » Sat May 25, 2019 6:43 pm

Paul Cooksey wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 6:08 pm
HIs CV says it is the 96/97 4NCL
Was he playing under the name "Tim Wall"? ;)

http://www.olimpbase.org/1997uk/1997id01.html

Alan Walton
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Re: New International Junior Chess Organisation for Great Britain

Post by Alan Walton » Sat May 25, 2019 6:47 pm

Richard Bates wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 6:43 pm
Paul Cooksey wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 6:08 pm
HIs CV says it is the 96/97 4NCL
Was he playing under the name "Tim Wall"? ;)

http://www.olimpbase.org/1997uk/1997id01.html
Only thing I could find

http://www.olimpbase.org/1996uk/1996newc.html

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