World Youth Championships

National developments, strategies and ideas.
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DFernandez
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Re: World Youth Championships

Post by DFernandez » Tue Dec 10, 2019 8:00 pm

This all seems like a bit of a witch-hunt. I would advocate extreme caution with the implications, even the legally defensible ones. Not only is the guy a kid, but the game fragments linked here remind me a little bit of Hawkins in his pre-GM years: he famously had a rather under-the-radar, late rise to glory but is now a grandmaster of credentials (and honesty) that nobody would really dispute.

Actual evidence: If local league organisers want to investigate how a player has played in their events, that is their prerogative. A server claiming that the player (assuming it's the same guy) has cheated online is very different from OTB games, and that's if you believe their methods. Meanwhile, I know of two players (a WIM from Hungary and an IM from Azerbaijan) who have been identified by popular servers of cheating, and yet have never heard even a rumour about their OTB results.

Matt Bridgeman
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Re: World Youth Championships

Post by Matt Bridgeman » Tue Dec 10, 2019 8:09 pm

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Alex Holowczak
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Re: World Youth Championships

Post by Alex Holowczak » Tue Dec 10, 2019 8:15 pm

Pete Heaven wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 4:37 pm
My comment, sticking to blitz chess only, is that surely it can't have been Declan playing on Sunday.
I'm not sure what I can say given data protection issues, but suffice to say that I was satisfied enough with the information provided on the entry form that the entrant was 327319C.

Richard Bates
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Re: World Youth Championships

Post by Richard Bates » Tue Dec 10, 2019 8:31 pm

DFernandez wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 8:00 pm
This all seems like a bit of a witch-hunt. I would advocate extreme caution with the implications, even the legally defensible ones. Not only is the guy a kid, but the game fragments linked here remind me a little bit of Hawkins in his pre-GM years: he famously had a rather under-the-radar, late rise to glory but is now a grandmaster of credentials (and honesty) that nobody would really dispute.

Actual evidence: If local league organisers want to investigate how a player has played in their events, that is their prerogative. A server claiming that the player (assuming it's the same guy) has cheated online is very different from OTB games, and that's if you believe their methods. Meanwhile, I know of two players (a WIM from Hungary and an IM from Azerbaijan) who have been identified by popular servers of cheating, and yet have never heard even a rumour about their OTB results.
Of course we should exercise caution in the lack of actual hard evidence. However a cursory glance at Jonathan’s progression as offered by his ECF grading history would I think suggest that there is little similarity from what we know. Jonathan was a late starter but his progression as a player was pretty unremarkable. It wasn’t even like he was stagnating at any point (despite the “amateur to IM “tagline). The impression of the meteoric rise was to some extent exaggerated by his early career being almost entirely (I believe) confined to the North East.

Paul Cooksey
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Re: World Youth Championships

Post by Paul Cooksey » Tue Dec 10, 2019 8:34 pm

Well, if Alex checked the entry personally, that is probably where the error crept in! :evil:

I agree with Richard. I don't see a really strong analogy with Jonathan Hawkins. He proved that you can keep a steady rate of improvement going longer that you would expect, older than you would expect if you have the talent and are prepared to work hard enough. But it still took him 10 years to get from beginner to master level.

I am very reluctant to accuse anyone of anything based on computer analysis. On its own I think it is insufficient. But were I to be paired with this player, I would talk to the arbiters about what anti-cheating measures they have in place, and whether it was possible to select my game for full checking. I'd expect to be subject to the same checks myself of course.

Matt Bridgeman
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Re: World Youth Championships

Post by Matt Bridgeman » Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:17 pm

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Stephen Ormerod
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Re: World Youth Championships

Post by Stephen Ormerod » Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:19 pm

nm
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Matt Bridgeman
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Re: World Youth Championships

Post by Matt Bridgeman » Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:25 pm

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Roger de Coverly
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Re: World Youth Championships

Post by Roger de Coverly » Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:27 pm

Stephen Ormerod wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:19 pm
Anyone heard of the Raspberry Pi ?
http://www.raspberry-pi-geek.com/Archiv ... ur-Rasp-Pi
https://www.raspberrypi.org/products/ra ... 4-model-b/

It's a phone size circuit board with powerful computer components and interfaces. Those, twenty years my junior, who were teenagers in the 1980s may recall the BBC Model B. The Raspberry Pi has similar educational objectives, but obviously updated specifications.
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Matt Bridgeman
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Re: World Youth Championships

Post by Matt Bridgeman » Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:28 pm

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Carl Hibbard
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Re: World Youth Championships

Post by Carl Hibbard » Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:31 pm

Matt Bridgeman wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:17 pm
A couple of briefly used Declan Lovelock United Kingdom chess.com profiles. Very high accuracy level, no loses. Not many games though.

https://www.chess.com/member/declanlovelock
https://www.chess.com/member/sheldortheassassin
Not particularly high standard opposition or that impressive I would expect to win all those too.
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Carl Hibbard

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Carl Hibbard
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Re: World Youth Championships

Post by Carl Hibbard » Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:37 pm

Tim Spanton wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:17 am
Matt Bridgeman wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 7:20 am
Based on his run of Dorset games I think Declan is set to be the highest rated, or top 2-3, highest rated under 16 in the country. I think it puts Alex in a slightly awkward position in that he may have to consider inviting him onto the England Junior Team, especially if Declan manages to similarly increase his standard play FIDE somewhere. I get the impression Declan’s method of cheating is quite sophisticated, and may continue for quite some time if he now avoids high scrutiny events like the London Chess Classic and the 4NCL. There may well be some more highly rated ‘victims’ to come in 2020. Whether one idea might be to pool his games on this thread for people to consider? His win over Allan Pleasants was an engine-like destruction apparently.
My game against him is available, with my notes at the time, at https://beauchess.blogspot.com/2019/10/blitzed.html
There is little point comparing opening moves with engine recommendations as engines are not strong enough to play the opening well (unless following pre-programmed moves).
But if you look at the game from around move 10, you will see engines (at least Stockfish10 and Komodo10) are deeply unimpressed with his novelty 13.Nbd4, but they like everything else he played (once they 'get' 17.Rfd1).
I would have played Rad1 but again it’s not a hard one to calculate
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Carl Hibbard

Matt Bridgeman
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Re: World Youth Championships

Post by Matt Bridgeman » Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:38 pm

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Carl Hibbard
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Re: World Youth Championships

Post by Carl Hibbard » Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:39 pm

Matt Bridgeman wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:38 pm
Yes, it's just a bit of extra info. Certainly infinitely better play than in London though ...phone sized circuit boards though. All starting to build a picture.
What a complete load of tosh.
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Carl Hibbard

Matt Bridgeman
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Re: World Youth Championships

Post by Matt Bridgeman » Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:44 pm

That's very negative. I'm in the process of getting more of his league games, touch wood. The Waddington game for example had 14 poor opening moves, but from move 15 to move 42 they were all Stockfish 10 top choices.
Last edited by Matt Bridgeman on Wed Dec 11, 2019 7:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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