English Chess Forum

England are playing at the World Youth U16 Chess Olympiad at the moment

They won Round one 4-0 against Libya A and are currently on the live boards in Round 2

The website is http://wyco2009.tsf.org.tr/index.php?lang=en and for the live games http://web1.tsf.org.tr/

Alas, turning on the live games reveals a round 2 result of India 4-0 England. Our team is significantly weaker than last year, when it included Kilpatrick of 232 fame and Ynojosa.

Latest results:

Round 2 lost 0-4 to India

Round 3 win 2.5-1.5 against Greece

Round 4 in progress now live at:

http://web2.tsf.org.tr/

Anybody know how this squad was selected? It doesn't look like the top 4 U16 English players to me, so wondered why that was?

for those that are missing, Felix Ynojosa is rumoured to be a financial issue, as he is going to the worlds. He was certainly invited. The remaining invitations were based mainly on the grand prix results, and there may have been some (Martin Brown, for example) who were invited but declined due to educational reasons i.e. starting 6th form at a new school / equivalent. Other than for Saravannan, who got as small grant as grand prix winner, there was no funding from the ECF for this event, so it may (as in the adult tournament) be a funding issue as for why this appears not to be our strongest team possible. Having said that, all four players selected are strong in their own right, and there isn't a huge difference, if any, between them and the others who could have been selected in their place. The only exception to this may be Felix, but i have outlined the reasons why he couldn't play above.

Sean Hewitt wrote:Anybody know how this squad was selected? It doesn't look like the top 4 U16 English players to me, so wondered why that was?

I'd be surprised if any of the teams had the top 4 U16s playing in it. It's a silly time of year to hold what is in effect an amateur event. It's also probably why there are so many Turkish teams taking part.

Rob Thompson wrote:for those that are missing, Felix Ynojosa is rumoured to be a financial issue, as he is going to the worlds. He was certainly invited. The remaining invitations were based mainly on the grand prix results, and there may have been some (Martin Brown, for example) who were invited but declined due to educational reasons i.e. starting 6th form at a new school / equivalent. Other than for Saravannan, who got as small grant as grand prix winner, there was no funding from the ECF for this event, so it may (as in the adult tournament) be a funding issue as for why this appears not to be our strongest team possible. Having said that, all four players selected are strong in their own right, and there isn't a huge difference, if any, between them and the others who could have been selected in their place. The only exception to this may be Felix, but i have outlined the reasons why he couldn't play above.

Thanks Rob!

The Russians have four u-16 players over 2400 ?

(Answer - no, they probably have more ...)

Indeed. The all-2400 Russian team omits GM Sanan Sjugirov (age 16, but still eligible for the U16 Olympiad), rated 2585 and recently fifth in the Russian Championship Higher League....

England are seeded ninth, but rated nearly 100 points above the tenth seeds. This means they are beating the weakies heavily (4-0 against South Africa B yesterday) and are getting crushed by the top teams (0-4 to India, doesn't look good in the match currently in progress against Azerbaijan).

I think it is questionable whether it is worth sending a team to the U16 Olympiad. Will the players really learn that much from playing South Africa B, or India for that matter? However, having sent a squad it is outrageous that as Rob comments
"there was no funding from the ECF for this event"
Where is the John Robinson money going? Was a £20,000 'loan' to pay for another member of staff at the Office really an appropriate use of the funds. I cannot imagine that the Charities Commission would really approve of this.

Matthew Turner wrote:I think it is questionable whether it is worth sending a team to the U16 Olympiad. Will the players really learn that much from playing South Africa B, or India for that matter?

I know very little about chess coaching and would defer to others about what would be a more productive use of time. There also seem to be a plethora of events titled 'junior this' or 'youth that' and it is hard for the layperson yet alone the media to work out the pecking order. However, I suspect that international play either as an individual and as a team has much wider benefits for the social development of those participating. And whilst in recent years participation at these events has presumably attracted John Robinson funding rather than chunks of the DFES main ECF grant, potential international competition for juniors is I suspect an important part of the grant consideration.

NB some forum readers will be aware that a team member belongs to my club. These comments are entirely independent of that fact.

You are entirely right in what you say. Youth championships have sprung up all over the place as little more than money making endeavours. I spoke to somebody recently who said that their son had played in the Russian Championships - that is a proper tournament where you have to qualify - it's not like the World Championships where you can just pay!
You are also right that the government want the grant to be used to support junior chess. If ever some bureaucrat finds out it all goes on an Office, the ECF are in big trouble.

Matthew Turner wrote: You are also right that the government want the grant to be used to support junior chess. If ever some bureaucrat finds out it all goes on an Office, the ECF are in big trouble.

Matthew, do you know that for a fact? I ask because everyone who claims to know what the government grant is supposed to be for seems to give a different answer depending on who you ask.

Members of the current and past ECF boards have told me, for example, that the grant is to maintain a full time staffed office and that if we didn't do that we would lose the money. In other words, they claim we spend £120k on the office to ensure we get a £60k grant!

Frankly, I suspect that there is no stipulation as to what it's for but that everyone claims it's for their bit of the empire!

Sean,
A lot of ECF Officials believe that the government grant was initially given to enable the BCF to set up an Office. I do not know if this is true or not - I assume that it is true. However, times change, if current ECF Officials believe that the government wish their grant to be spent on an Office then they should explicitly present the ECF accounts to government officials. They quite clearly show that the ECF have obtained matching (or nearly matching) funding to run the Office and they will be lauded for their enterprise. However, I suspect that when talking to the DCMS the ECF will continue to undreplay Office costs and choose instead to emphasise participation in events like the U16 Olympiad which receive no, or very little, ECF support.

1=3 against Armenia tonight. Nice win by Yang-Fan Zhou as Black, three defeats not surprising especially as Armenia's Board 3 is named Tigran Petrosian.....