British Junior Championships

[John Upham]

Has Peter A. Williams Jnr. (the subject of at least one television programme about child genius) ever been selected for England?

I can't recall a single instance of selection. Has Peter not been noticed by the selectors or has he (or someone else) declined the invitation?


<rant>
(For the record, I reserve the use the word "genius" extremely rarely and very selectively. I use it for those persons whom I consider to be originally creative such as Leonardo da Vinci, Mozart or Einstein to name but a few. I prefer to use more accurate terms such as "Gifted" or "Talented". The media throws this label around far too generously.

Someone with an IQ of 160 at 3 months I would class as gifted. If they then do something useful with their gift we could call them talented, and then, and only then, if they ever become originally creative other descriptions might become appropriate)
</rant>

[Richard James]

Has Peter A. Williams Jnr. (the subject of at least one television programme about child genius) ever been selected for England?

I can't recall a single instance of selection. Has Peter not been noticed by the selectors or has he (or someone else) declined the invitation?

He played in the European U14s last year, scoring 4½/9, and was shown on television doing so. I understand he had been asked in previous years but turned down the invitations because the BCF (as it then was), and specifically its President, had failed to support his parents in their argument with their Local Education Authority.

I'm not sure whether Sheila Dines has turned down invitations in the past. I'm not sure we should be discussing specific individuals on here without inside knowledge.

Given the identity of the current Director of Junior Chess I'm not altogether surprised that the policy has been changed. Was this announced on the ECF website?

[Roger de Coverly]

Not just 'seriously retrograde' but 'seriously disastrous retrograde'. It is a complete nonsense to go back to one player per event, a policy discredited a decade ago

Reading this gave me a serious case of deja vu.

A bit of digging unearthed this :-

from http://www.sccu.ndo.co.uk/9900/let.htm

From Roger de Coverly
19.9.99
Responding to Leonard Barden's point [below] on numbers of juniors participating in international events. I've seen part of the googol of email debate on this. A salient point to my mind is that it costs in excess of one thousand pounds for each additional participant. There can be only 3 sources of funding for this:-
(1) the existing sponsorship -- but I'd presume this only covers one player per event.
(2) the BCF game fee. Pigs might fly but I cannot see the representatives of the "ordinary" club and congress player wearing this.
(3) Personal sponsorship of the individual player by parents, family or whoever.
It's a bit radical and money orientated but (3) might actually be a winner. The idea is that the BCF auction additional places to the highest bidder. There would have to be a minimum bid and some sort of minimum playing standard. This put a market value on this form of chess education. Personally I would have thought a season's worth of NCL participation would work out more valuable and at lower cost but let the market (chess parents) decide.




From Leonard Barden
18.9.99
Dear Richard,
If Neil Clifton [see below] thinks that one player per event (and no medals) is so splendid, I suggest he visits the European Youth Championships website1 which provides the numbers sent by other leading chess nations (who did win medals).
Leonard Barden

[Matthew Turner]

In some ways it would be 'nice' to send more juniors to World and European Championships, but one must realise that these are massive money making operations and the costs of sending players are getting ridiculous.
Peter Purland has an incredibly difficult job to do as Junior Director. A look at his budget will show will show that, in absolute terms, it is about 30% less than a decade ago. However, I think it is not unreasonable that adjusting for other factors, that in real terms the Junior Budget is down something like 75%! Clearly the ECF needs to address their priorities and more money needs to go towards junior chess. However, I also think that there are more cost effective ways for juniors to gain experience and develop their game than competing at the World and European Championships.

[Richard Bates]

And this cutback comes at a time when the ECF is awash with John Robinson funds...

Are the "John Robinson funds" actually a finite resource available to be spent, or simply intended as a permanent fund to provide investment income to be spent?

[Leonard Barden]

In some ways it would be 'nice' to send more juniors to World and European Championships, but one must realise that these are massive money making operations and the costs of sending players are getting ridiculous.
Peter Purland has an incredibly difficult job to do as Junior Director. A look at his budget will show will show that, in absolute terms, it is about 30% less than a decade ago. However, I think it is not unreasonable that adjusting for other factors, that in real terms the Junior Budget is down something like 75%! Clearly the ECF needs to address their priorities and more money needs to go towards junior chess. However, I also think that there are more cost effective ways for juniors to gain experience and develop their game than competing at the World and European Championships.

If the junior budget needs cutting, I would suggest ditching the Glorney and Faber which do nothing for our best players and mainly enable weaker contenders to get an international selection on their cv against poor quality opponents from Scotland, Ireland and Wales. The Glorney/Faber used to include the Netherlands and France and there would be better value in a direct match against one of these countries.
If you send a full complement of players (more than one per event) and coaches to Vietnam as in 2008 it will be economically painful. This year the World Youth is in Europe. I think we would do better if we sent only credible players, which would mean a smaller group, no player in some girls events but places for those like Kilpatrick and Dines who clearly have the overall strength. And even if the John Robinson money is only investment income,it should be able to reduce the current horrific costs for families.
I do agree with Matthew that juniors can sometimes do better with other events than the World/European juniors. When Howell was younger I advised his family that the Isle of Man was a better option than world youth events below U18 (which has a GM norm). He still played in that year's U14 and shed a load of rating points, but subsequently took my advice. Similarly now Zhou and Ynojosa, our only apparent junior prospects for IM, should have the priority to improve their low ratings and acquire IM norms, which won't happen in the World U16/14.

[Andy Burnett]

If the junior budget needs cutting, I would suggest ditching the Glorney and Faber which do nothing for our best players and mainly enable weaker contenders to get an international selection on their cv against poor quality opponents from Scotland, Ireland and Wales. The Glorney/Faber used to include the Netherlands and France and there would be better value in a direct match against one of these countries.

Leonard,
I really think you might have worded this paragraph a little better - I'm sure the 'poor quality opponents' in question wouldn't be too impressed by your description.
There are many opportunites to challenge yourself in a purely chess sense, but relatively few which engender and foster qualities such as team spirit, co-operation, enjoyment and sportsmanship to name but a few. The 'Glorney and Faber' are such opportunities.

On a related point, I have only had one occasion to witness England's leading junior in action - an obviously painful loss in the 4NCL a couple of months ago which elicited the briefest of handshakes, no words of congratulations for his opponent, followed by a stomp off while crumpling his scoresheet into a ball bound for the nearest bin. Personally I'd rather see poor quality players able to handle defeat with a bit more grace - even if it means they are never likely to reach the 'top' in chess.

Also, I'm not sure if the Netherlands or France would see a match against 'relatively weak' England squads as being a high priority

Andy Burnett

[IM Jack Rudd]

My sources tell me that Dines was meant to be playing in the Worlds qualifying event, but failed to show up. It is unknown why this was.

[Ben Purton]

bad luck today Jack

[IM Jack Rudd]

bad luck today Jack

You might very well think that. I couldn't possibly comment.

[Ben Purton]

I meant wishing not thinking heheh

[Richard Bates]

And even if the John Robinson money is only investment income,it should be able to reduce the current horrific costs for families.

My point being that 0.% of any amount is not very much.

[Matthew Turner]

I don't think Leonard really understands the economics of junior chess. If you abandoned the Glorney Cup, that would probably meet half the costs of sending someone to the World Youth (or an tiny fraction of the costs of sending David Howell to Argentina).

[Leonard Barden]

There are ten English juniors entered for the European Union championships starting on 4 August -5 U14s, 4 U12s and 1 U10. The highest English seedings are Brandon Clarke 9th in the U14 and Isaac Sanders 11th in the U12.

I couldn't find any information on these selections or indeed on the tournament on the ECF website.......

[Rob Thompson]

The reason that there is no selection for the EU Championships is because it overlaps with the British, so clearly the ECF will want the top juniors to be playing in that. The juniorsa that are going to the EU chamionships are the ones that are going without support. Also, anybody could enter these; there is no limit.