English Chess Forum

I'm pleased to announce that Yateley Manor School will be continuing the sponsorship of the above event for 2011/12.

What do people think of the age-handicapping system? I am not sure I like it too much. Primary school sides have become much stronger in the last ten years.

I think I would prefer a seperate U13 and secondary school tournament with no handicapping whatsover.

Any views on this?

Andrew

certainly it was very irritating to get knocked out of the main competition despite winning the match 4.5 - 1.5. It seems a little farcical this, to me.

I hope for the older schools sake that Isaac Sanders, Ravi Haria and Matthew Wadsworth don't attend the same school

andrew martin wrote:I'm pleased to announce that Yateley Manor School will be continuing the sponsorship of the above event for 2011/12.

Good News. In this time of funding cuts it is great to hear of continue sponsorship.

andrew martin wrote: What do people think of the age-handicapping system? I am not sure I like it too much. Primary school sides have become much stronger in the last ten years.

I think that in an era when secondary school chess is struggling whilst primary school chess is thriving it is no longer necessary to have an age handicap.
[Note that I am not in an unbiased position - Wilson's School teams are now getting older and this year for the first time suffered from the age handicap having previously benefited from it quite a few times.]

andrew martin wrote: I think I would prefer a seperate U13 and secondary school tournament with no handicapping whatsover.

Great idea.

andrew martin wrote: What do people think of the age-handicapping system? I am not sure I like it too much.

It might have made sense in the 1950s when the tournament was first devised. Even in the sixties, a normal school first team would comprise mostly sixth form with the odd 13, 14 or 15 year old if they were really good. Arguably this model broke when the likes of Nigel Short, Julian Hodgson and others came onto the scene into the seventies. You could then have the best player in the school in the youngest class.

Make it a straight fight, or use grades if you must have a handicap.

andrew martin wrote:What do people think of the age-handicapping system?

My school decided not to enter it for many years precisely because of the age handicap.

andrew martin wrote:I think I would prefer a seperate U13 and secondary school tournament with no handicapping whatsover.

Why Under 13 and not Under 11? In Birmingham, Secondary Schools are 11-18, and Primary Schools 4-11. I realise that in other areas this isn't true - Worcester has the concept of a "Middle School" - but would that be a more even split?

I agree completely with the principle though.

The secondary schools in Yeovil are all 11-16, so my limited experience would also suggest 11 as a logical point for the split.

IM Jack Rudd wrote:The secondary schools in Yeovil are all 11-16, so my limited experience would also suggest 11 as a logical point for the split.

There is already a national U11 (and U9) schools tournament that 200+ teams enter each year. It is run by Tony Corfe on behalf of EPSCA, with semi-finals held at Pontins at this time of year.

An U13 event would allow Prep schools (such as Yateley Manor), secondary schools (year 7 and 8, where chess is most popular) and primary schools to enter under an equal footing.

Neill Cooper wrote:

IM Jack Rudd wrote:There is already a national U11 (and U9) schools tournament that 200+ teams enter each year. It is run by Tony Corfe on behalf of EPSCA, with semi-finals held at Pontins at this time of year.

There are also U13 and U18 finals (often merged into one tournament) held at the same time as those for the U9s and U11s. These don't have qualifying events or semi-finals.

andrew martin wrote:I'm pleased to announce that Yateley Manor School will be continuing the sponsorship of the above event for 2011/12.

What do people think of the age-handicapping system? I am not sure I like it too much. Primary school sides have become much stronger in the last ten years.

I think I would prefer a seperate U13 and secondary school tournament with no handicapping whatsover. arable

Any views on this?

Andrew

We (Reading School) have benefited from the age handicap this year, putting out last year's champions, Wellington, out by virtue of drawing while fielding a younger team. Nonetheless the reasons for the handicap are no longer very compelling. And in case you think I would say that since the Reading players will only get older, next year we will be welcoming a certain Matthew Wadsworth which should keep our average age down.

I suspect that a couple of years ago, our team captain possibly dropped himself in favour of a younger player to get the average team age down. He only played on board 5 or 6 and the replacement was of comparable ability, but the handicap system still created this perverse incentive to not pick the strongest team.

Also, the presence of primary schools appears to me to serve little purpose. One or two exceptional cases may get through a couple of rounds taking advantage of the age handicap, but I would question whether this benefits anyone. I feel that the current marketing of the event to Primary schools is perhaps disingenuous - it tries to claim that it is suitable for everyone, but the vast majority of primary schools will simply be overwhelmed which is no fun for anyone. A separate U13 competition would certainly address this.

Andrew - how would you go about changing the rules?

Neill Cooper wrote:

IM Jack Rudd wrote:The secondary schools in Yeovil are all 11-16, so my limited experience would also suggest 11 as a logical point for the split.

There is already a national U11 (and U9) schools tournament that 200+ teams enter each year. It is run by Tony Corfe on behalf of EPSCA, with semi-finals held at Pontins at this time of year.

An U13 event would allow Prep schools (such as Yateley Manor), secondary schools (year 7 and 8, where chess is most popular) and primary schools to enter under an equal footing.

I have negative memories of the EPSCA event. Although the qualifying events are held on a single weekend day, the subsequent rounds require a whole weekend at Pontins. The school I used to run the chess club for would not countenance this. So despite being Berkshire champions for a couple of years, and having a team where every player (including the reserve) turned out for the Berkshire Under 11 team, we could never pit ourselves against the best opposition out there. At the risk of sounding defensive or political, the only local schools I know who enter are prep schools, and looking at the list of finalists from last year, this appears to be a general theme.

Brent Smith wrote:I have negative memories of the EPSCA event. Although the qualifying events are held on a single weekend day, the subsequent rounds require a whole weekend at Pontins.

As a player, i also have negative memories of the Pontins weekend. I don't i have ever played under worse playing conditions, and that's not even hyperbole.