British Championships Chess Coaching

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andrew martin

Re: British Championships Chess Coaching

Post by andrew martin » Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:07 am

Answering Richard's post earlier there is no Director of Coaching. The Manager of Coaching answers to the Junior Director and runs all decisions made through him ( or her). I agree with him that there should be a completely fair and neutral attitude to the private coaching arena.

I think it is important to say at this moment that I feel very strongly the time has come for change in English Junior Chess. I am therefore standing down in October and have informed the Board as such. I thank them for their support.

I look forward to working with the new JD and team in whatever capacity I am needed. It will be very interesting to see who comes forward.

Krishna Shiatis
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Re: British Championships Chess Coaching

Post by Krishna Shiatis » Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:24 am

Sometimes, common sense has to come into the equation. Rules are all well and good, but when they stop a worthwhile activity from proceeding (and everyone has said that it would be beneficial - I do not think anyone thinks otherwise) then you have to look at ways to make it happen. Sabrina has excellent track record.

I am not talking about breaking rules or making exceptions - simply embracing her idea and advertising Sabrina's coaching as private and separate to the ECF would I am sure, have fixed much. Guidelines are not yet in place about the future - that might be the way forward as well.

Much has been said about the fact that the ECF should not be supporting private coaching.

This is not just any old private coaching. This is structured and carefully planned. Nobody else is doing anything like this. It is most welcome by everyone I have spoken to. The ECF has a very poor track record at the moment with actually trying to help juniors with coaching and training. They do not seem to be doing much.

If they (the ECF) supported this initiative (with the relevant legal wording to cover themselves if they so wished) then it would do nothing but enhance their reputation and they could then say that actually yes, we are encouraging the provision of regular structured training/coaching.

The other point to make, is that Sabrina is just beginning. She has IMO what it takes to build a solid foundation for training and coaching in this country. It is important to encourage her in whatever way we can. Not just for our juniors, but also the future of chess. Her initiatives will create successful juniors who will then encourage more participation and competition.

If that encouragement is via an acceptance from the ECF of what she is doing and facilitation in whatever way that they can, then so be it. She has continually asserted that hers is a private arrangement. All she really needs, is the powers that be, to directly support her and not indirectly/directly hinder her.

Simon Dixon
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Re: British Championships Chess Coaching

Post by Simon Dixon » Thu Jul 14, 2011 12:43 pm

All she really needs, is the powers that be, to directly support her and not indirectly/directly hinder her.
The ECF should not be seen to advertise or endorse private individuals or academies involved in chess for profit. If they do it for one, they have to do it for all. Nor should private individuals or academies claim affiliation to prestigious events, that they have no connection with, to tout for business. That is how rogue traders operate.

LozCooper

Re: British Championships Chess Coaching

Post by LozCooper » Thu Jul 14, 2011 1:04 pm

Simon Dixon wrote:
All she really needs, is the powers that be, to directly support her and not indirectly/directly hinder her.
The ECF should not be seen to advertise or endorse private individuals or academies involved in chess for profit. If they do it for one, they have to do it for all. Nor should private individuals or academies claim affiliation to prestigious events, that they have no connection with, to tout for business. That is how rogue traders operate.
Given the amount of money that Sabrina has put into girls chess your comment about profit is hardly relevant. As it is it's unlikely she will come close to breaking even through her coaching at the British. If only we had more people prepared to give up their time and money to help then English chess would be in a far healthier state.

Sabrina is joint ECF Manager of Women's Chess with Jovanka Houska. She has permission to coach at the British, albeit in an unoffical capacity.

To compare her to a rogue trader is disgraceful.

Sabrina Chevannes
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Re: British Championships Chess Coaching

Post by Sabrina Chevannes » Thu Jul 14, 2011 1:05 pm

Simon Dixon wrote:
All she really needs, is the powers that be, to directly support her and not indirectly/directly hinder her.
The ECF should not be seen to advertise or endorse private individuals or academies involved in chess for profit. If they do it for one, they have to do it for all. Nor should private individuals or academies claim affiliation to prestigious events, that they have no connection with, to tout for business. That is how rogue traders operate.

Simon,

I refer you to the ECF website: http://www.englishchess.org.uk/

Look at the advertisement column and you will see a few adverts for institutions that make money from chess advertising. Are you saying this is not allowed?

And my academy has not actually made any money for the events it has ran, it has been used to FUND the events as I believe it is all for the future of junior chess. Likewise, I am not trying to claim any sort of affiliation, I am making a big loss on this venture again, but I believe it is good for the juniors.

Andrew Farthing has already explained the situation here as he is CEO of the ECF and I very much respect him and thank him for the message he delivered to me personally and on the forum. I don't know why so many other people are speaking up about the "policies" in place when actually they don't know about them enough and are not actually part of the ECF board.

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Adam Raoof
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Re: British Championships Chess Coaching

Post by Adam Raoof » Thu Jul 14, 2011 1:07 pm

Sean Hewitt wrote:
Alan Burke wrote:..there is no need to worry about her coaching sessions taking place within the facilities paid for by the ECF
That is correct. The venue for the British is supplied free of charge :lol:
Sadly not this year, nor in 2013 - but next year in North Shields will be [touches wood].

Simon Dixon
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Re: British Championships Chess Coaching

Post by Simon Dixon » Thu Jul 14, 2011 1:14 pm

To compare her to a rogue trader is disgraceful.
There is no comparison, except in your mind.

If I advertised the Simon Dixon Chess Academy on here offering in tournament training at the girls national, what would you say to that, do you think I would get away with it?

LozCooper

Re: British Championships Chess Coaching

Post by LozCooper » Thu Jul 14, 2011 1:22 pm

Simon Dixon wrote:
To compare her to a rogue trader is disgraceful.
There is no comparison, except in your mind.

If I advertised the Simon Dixon Chess Academy on here offering in tournament training at the girls national, what would you say to that, do you think I would get away with it?
I would ask what your coaching credentials are ask if you have the permission of the organiser.

Simon Dixon
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Re: British Championships Chess Coaching

Post by Simon Dixon » Thu Jul 14, 2011 1:30 pm

I refer you to the ECF website: http://www.englishchess.org.uk/

Look at the advertisement column and you will see a few adverts for institutions that make money from chess advertising. Are you saying this is not allowed?
I am looking at it, lots of stuff promoting tournaments, which is what the ECF does for everyone, I can't see anything that is promoting private coaching.

Simon Dixon
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Re: British Championships Chess Coaching

Post by Simon Dixon » Thu Jul 14, 2011 1:43 pm

I would ask what your coaching credentials are ask if you have the permission of the organiser.
Why would I need permission of the organiser when I have just taken it upon myself to to use your event to promote my business.

You see what I am getting at here?

LozCooper

Re: British Championships Chess Coaching

Post by LozCooper » Thu Jul 14, 2011 1:53 pm

Simon Dixon wrote:
I would ask what your coaching credentials are ask if you have the permission of the organiser.
Why would I need permission of the organiser when I have just taken it upon myself to to use your event to promote my business.

You see what I am getting at here?
Not really. Sabrina had the permission of one the two organisers to perform private coaching. Sabrina is well known in English chess as well as being a co manager of women's chess with the ECF and works for Chess in Schools and Communities.

You may have excellent credentials yourself but I am not aware of them.

Sabrina Chevannes
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Re: British Championships Chess Coaching

Post by Sabrina Chevannes » Thu Jul 14, 2011 2:18 pm

Simon

Actually again, you are assuming something you don't know. Firstly, one of the links on there is for a coaching event. Secondly, if you want to coach at one of the girls events that I run and if you do have coaching credentials like Loz said, then yes I would love for you to be there. I welcome any coaching, from any academy as I believe it is the children who are important and as long as they are getting good coaching, it doesn't matter where it is from.

I wasn't using the British to promote my business as the people attending are already those who are aware of what I do and appreciate it.

Sean Hewitt

Re: British Championships Chess Coaching

Post by Sean Hewitt » Thu Jul 14, 2011 2:23 pm

Simon Dixon wrote:The ECF should not be seen to advertise or endorse private individuals or academies involved in chess for profit.
Why not?

John Upham
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Re: British Championships Chess Coaching

Post by John Upham » Thu Jul 14, 2011 2:53 pm

Simon Dixon wrote:
The ECF should not be seen to advertise or endorse private individuals or academies involved in chess for profit.
I am sorry to say that this viewpoint (which has continued for many years) is one of those contributing factors holding back the development of chess in England and will continue to do.

It would appear that is a sin for persons to make a living from chess and those who attempt to do so run the risk of being chastised.

I'm not referring to playing chess for a living but to the whole gamut of support and development services that surrounds the chess sector in England.

Those who coach in schools are expected to provide their time for free.
Those who develop chess software are expected to provide it for free.
Those who run tournaments are expected to live in poverty and also give all of their time.
Those who ****** are expected to work for free.

Our attitude needs to change to reward those who work for chess. We shall continue in the dark ages of amateurish (rather than amateur) ways unless attitudes are modified.
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Sean Hewitt

Re: British Championships Chess Coaching

Post by Sean Hewitt » Thu Jul 14, 2011 3:03 pm

John Upham wrote:
Simon Dixon wrote:
The ECF should not be seen to advertise or endorse private individuals or academies involved in chess for profit.
I am sorry to say that this viewpoint (which has continued for many years) is one of those contributing factors holding back the development of chess in England and will continue to do.

It would appear that is a sin for persons to make a living from chess and those who attempt to do so run the risk of being chastised.

I'm not referring to playing chess for a living but to the whole gamut of support and development services that surrounds the chess sector in England.

Those who coach in schools are expected to provide their time for free.
Those who develop chess software are expected to provide it for free.
Those who run tournaments are expected to live in poverty and also give all of their time.
Those who ****** are expected to work for free.

Our attitude needs to change to reward those who work for chess. We shall continue in the dark ages of amateurish (rather than amateur) ways unless attitudes are modified.
I agree with all of this. It was interesting in Ireland that all the players who spoke to me said that

a) they thought the tournament was great and well run and
b) they hoped that I had made enough money to make it worthwhile so that I would come back to Ireland again.

I'm not sure that anyone has ever said (b) to me in England!

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