British Championships Chess Coaching

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Simon Dixon
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Re: British Championships Chess Coaching

Post by Simon Dixon » Thu Jul 14, 2011 3:35 pm

Sabrina had the permission of one the two organisers to perform private coaching.
So what happened then, why was it withdrawn.

LozCooper

Re: British Championships Chess Coaching

Post by LozCooper » Thu Jul 14, 2011 3:40 pm

Simon Dixon wrote:
Sabrina had the permission of one the two organisers to perform private coaching.
So what happened then, why was it withdrawn.
It wasn't withdrawn. She had and still has permission to carry out private coaching. What I was asked to stress was that her coaching wasn't endorsed by the British Championship. Nick Nixon is the official coach of the British Championship.

Simon Dixon
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Re: British Championships Chess Coaching

Post by Simon Dixon » Thu Jul 14, 2011 3:45 pm

I am sorry to say that this viewpoint (which has continued for many years) is one of those contributing factors holding back the development of chess in England and will continue to do.
And with good reason, where will it end if the ECF is seen to favour some individuals over others. If people want to promote chess to make a profit, there is nothing to stop them. Set up a website, advertise in the press.

Simon Dixon
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Re: British Championships Chess Coaching

Post by Simon Dixon » Thu Jul 14, 2011 4:00 pm

It wasn't withdrawn. She had and still has permission to carry out private coaching.

What I was asked to stress was that her coaching wasn't endorsed by the British Championship. Nick Nixon is the official coach of the British Championship.
If Sabrina has permission to coach at the BC, does Mr Nixon stand to lose out from this arrangement.

Alex Holowczak
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Re: British Championships Chess Coaching

Post by Alex Holowczak » Thu Jul 14, 2011 4:16 pm

Simon Dixon wrote:If Sabrina has permission to coach at the BC, does Mr Nixon stand to lose out from this arrangement.
No, because he is paid via the John Robinson Trust. It is free to the juniors who wish to be coached by him. By contrast, CCA charges a fee for its coaching, because it's private.

Alan Burke

Re: British Championships Chess Coaching

Post by Alan Burke » Thu Jul 14, 2011 6:07 pm

Once again, the situation about this unofficial coaching taking place AT the British Championships will simply not occur as Sabrina had herself stated earlier in this thread that ...
"I have never said I was intending on using the venue so there should be no issues of public liability nor rental charges. We were planning on using the accom of each student plus my accom, plus I have been getting quotes on hiring local meeting rooms etc, so there should be no problem with that."

Therefore, just let this unofficial coaching go ahead at the other venue away from Ponds Forge.

Jovanka Houska
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Re: British Championships Chess Coaching

Post by Jovanka Houska » Thu Jul 14, 2011 8:23 pm

I have been following this thread and some of the posts have made uncomfortable reading. Firstly some of these "general" criticisms of riding roughshod over established rules, piggy-backing onto a tournament , rogue trader statements maybe aimed in a general manner but on a thread about our in-tournament training, I just don't like the negative association. Yes, the ECF should probably have some guidelines in place in order to prevent someone from ever doing these things but maybe this could be discussed on a different thread.
I would also like to stress that this is a private venture with the aim of helping our juniors. This is most certainly not a money-making venture and should have no impact on the official coaching done at the British. Our sole aim has always been to help Junior (and Women's chess) so, Simon Dixon, we would welcome anyone who wishes to work with us to achieve that goal.
What does make me cross is that Sabrina has had to devote much of her time and energy in defending herself and her academy so publicly, not only is it demoralising but also we could have used that energy in actually doing more positive things.

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: British Championships Chess Coaching

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Thu Jul 14, 2011 10:46 pm

jhouska wrote:What does make me cross is that Sabrina has had to devote much of her time and energy in defending herself and her academy so publicly, not only is it demoralising but also we could have used that energy in actually doing more positive things.
To be fair, as regards the academy comment, there has not been much comment on these forums about the Chevannes Chess Academy. Search the forum and you will see that the full title is only mentioned once, and in Lawrence Cooper's initial post that started this thread, the Academy is not mentioned at all. It is mentioned in the attached pdf, but like many I never bother to download and read such attachments, paying more attention to the actual post itself. This may have caused some of the confusion that followed.

Indeed, I only noticed the academy aspect recently when going to read one of Sabrina's reports and noticing that the website had this nice banner-logo type thing with this academy named for Sabrina. My first thought was, "good for her". My second thought was, "I suppose this must be new, as this is the first I've heard of it". My third thought was that it reminded me of the AMCA (Andrew Martin Chess Academy). For year's I'd known of these sides in the 4NCL called AMCA <something> and never realised what AMCA stood for!

Links for those not familiar with the above:

http://www.chevanneschessacademy.com/
http://www.andrewmartinchessacademy.com/main.php

I'm not sure how many other chess academies exist in England (many may call themselves something different), but a quick search threw up this one (Worcestershire Junior Chess Academy):

http://www.wjca.org.uk/

The point I'm making is that many ordinary chess players reading these forums will be unaware of such endeavours or who is involved in various ones, so it does help to make clearer who is involved in what and which hats are being worn when posting here, and so on.

Andrew Camp
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Re: British Championships Chess Coaching

Post by Andrew Camp » Thu Jul 14, 2011 10:49 pm

Just wanted to say that my stepdaughter has just has a one and a half hour training session with Sabrina tonight via Skype and it was fantastic.

I guess this is not overly relevant to the thread but I felt it needed to be said.
Chairman of North Wales Junior Chess Association
northwaleschess@aol.com

LozCooper

Re: British Championships Chess Coaching

Post by LozCooper » Thu Jul 14, 2011 10:51 pm

Andrew Camp wrote:Just wanted to say that my stepdaughter has just has a one and a half hour training session with Sabrina tonight via Skype and it was fantastic.

I guess this is not overly relevant to the thread but I felt it needed to be said.
There's always room for feedback from a satisfied customer :D

Alex Holowczak
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Re: British Championships Chess Coaching

Post by Alex Holowczak » Thu Jul 14, 2011 10:54 pm

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:The point I'm making is that many ordinary chess players reading these forums will be unaware of such endeavours or who is involved in various ones, so it does help to make clearer who is involved in what and which hats are being worn when posting here, and so on.
Was it really confusing to have an educated guess as to who is involved with the Chevannes Chess Academy, given that this forum thread has someone called Sabrina Chevannes posting about it?

Yes, it would have been confusing to work out who runs the Worcestershire Junior Chess Academy, but on the other hand, that isn't named after the person who runs it.

If I heard of the mnemonic "AMCA", and I wanted find out what it was, I'd do this. I then realise that's not too helpful, so then I'd do this. And lo and behold, you have your answer.

If the average forumite was reading this, and really wanted to find out what these things were, my proposed solution would usually get you the right answer.

Alan Burke

Re: British Championships Chess Coaching

Post by Alan Burke » Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:13 pm

jhouska ... People are not being critical or negative about the idea of the In-tournament training; it is the way that it was advertised as being "AT the British Championships", which gave many people the understandable impression that the coaching was to take place within the venue of the Championships - and if that was the case then many people wished to know just why an organised private venture should be allowed to take place within the confines of the venue which is being paid for (yes, Sean Hewitt, paid for !) by the ECF ?

That is what gave the impression that the organisers of the coaching were riding roughshod over established practices, as well as piggy-backing on the tournament in trying to promote their own private scheme as being connected to the Championships themselves.

If, as Sabrina has since stated in this thread - and I assume her word on this matter is still her bond - the coaching is to take place at a venue away from Ponds Forge, there is then no problem. However, if that had been made clear straight from the outset then nobody could have made any complaint about it infringing on the Championships, whilst the organisers of this private venture could then run the scheme in whichever way they wished to.

Maybe organisers do become demoralised at times, but they also must be aware that certain procedures are in place and must be adhered to before they can just do what they think is best - the fact that, in their opinion, they are 'doing it for the good of the game' can't always be the standard answer to any criticism.

Therefore, could you now confirm that this private venture is not going to take place at the venue hired by the ECF, because if so, this discussion could possibly come to an end ?

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: British Championships Chess Coaching

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:16 pm

Alex Holowczak wrote:
Christopher Kreuzer wrote:The point I'm making is that many ordinary chess players reading these forums will be unaware of such endeavours or who is involved in various ones, so it does help to make clearer who is involved in what and which hats are being worn when posting here, and so on.
Was it really confusing to have an educated guess as to who is involved with the Chevannes Chess Academy, given that this forum thread has someone called Sabrina Chevannes posting about it?
You miss my point. Of course I realised who was involved with the Chevannes Chess Academy, but my point is that I had Sabrina down in my mind as being involved with "Chess in Schools and the Communities" and "ECF Women's Coaching with someone else" (apologies for not getting names and titles right here). This Chevannes Chess Academy was something completely new to me, and it was the first I'd heard of it. Of course I could have read about it on her website, but it was a link from something I thought she had organised as part of the ECF role (I think it was the report on that National Girls Championship) that took me to the Academy website, which is what left me uncertain as to how these roles all interacted.

Have a look at the first post in this thread again:

http://www.ecforum.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=3206

Can you tell from that whether the National Girls' Chess Championships is an ECF event or a Chevannes Chess Academy event. I had presumed the former, but given that it is reported from the latter, I'm not not so sure. Possibly the CCA is just hosting the report. I realise it may be clear to some, but my point is that it won't be clear to all.

And look again at the first post in this thread. Read it from the point of view of someone who is just briefly reading it and has no intention of downloading the pdf. The cover e-mail from Sabrina that Lawrence posted says "we", with no indication of who "we" is. Sure, the pdf makes it clear, but it would have been improved by miles if it had been made clearer in that post who "we" referred to. In fact, it might help if Lawrence went back and edited that post to make it clearer, as others may read that later.

And compare this to the post today by Sabrina on CSC matters:

http://www.ecforum.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3239

That is clearly to do with Chess in Schools and the Community - no confusion there.

So maybe anyone posting to the forums in a "role" should state up front what that role is and what organisation they are posting on behalf of, so there is no confusion. Certainly I would hope anyone holding a position within the ECF and posting on ECF business would make clear whether they are posting in a official role or not. Other chess organisations, less so, but those that have several different hats (i.e. roles) do need to make clear which they are wearing when posting here.

Alex Holowczak
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Re: British Championships Chess Coaching

Post by Alex Holowczak » Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:23 pm

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:
Alex Holowczak wrote:
Christopher Kreuzer wrote:The point I'm making is that many ordinary chess players reading these forums will be unaware of such endeavours or who is involved in various ones, so it does help to make clearer who is involved in what and which hats are being worn when posting here, and so on.
Was it really confusing to have an educated guess as to who is involved with the Chevannes Chess Academy, given that this forum thread has someone called Sabrina Chevannes posting about it?
You miss my point. Of course I realised who was involved with the Chevannes Chess Academy, but my point is that I had Sabrina down in my mind as being involved with "Chess in Schools and the Communities" and "ECF Women's Coaching with someone else" (apologies for not getting names and titles right here). This Chevannes Chess Academy was something completely new to me, and it was the first I'd heard of it. Of course I could have read about it on her website, but it was a link from something I thought she had organised as part of the ECF role (I think it was the report on that National Girls Championship) that took me to the Academy website, which is what left me uncertain as to how these roles all interacted.

Have a look at the first post in this thread again:

http://www.ecforum.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=3206

Can you tell from that whether the National Girls' Chess Championships is an ECF event or a Chevannes Chess Academy event. I had presumed the former, but given that it is reported from the latter, I'm not not so sure. Possibly the CCA is just hosting the report. I realise it may be clear to some, but my point is that it won't be clear to all.

And look again at the first post in this thread. Read it from the point of view of someone who is just briefly reading it and has no intention of downloading the pdf. The cover e-mail from Sabrina that Lawrence posted says "we", with no indication of who "we" is. Sure, the pdf makes it clear, but it would have been improved by miles if it had been made clearer in that post who "we" referred to. In fact, it might help if Lawrence went back and edited that post to make it clearer, as others may read that later.

And compare this to the post today by Sabrina on CSC matters:

http://www.ecforum.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3239

That is clearly to do with Chess in Schools and the Community - no confusion there.

So maybe anyone posting to the forums in a "role" should state up front what that role is and what organisation they are posting on behalf of, so there is no confusion. Certainly I would hope anyone holding a position within the ECF and posting on ECF business would make clear whether they are posting in a official role or not. Other chess organisations, less so, but those that have several different hats (i.e. roles) do need to make clear which they are wearing when posting here.
I know I have a tendency to be a pedant for things like this ... but who cares?

The important thing is that Sabrina is a volunteer willing to put time and effort into organising things, and these hats may end up overlapping occasionally. I certainly don't have any objection to the overlap. It was obvious that the pdf referred to in this thread was to do with the CCA. The letter heading was the clue, I thought.

Jovanka Houska
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Re: British Championships Chess Coaching

Post by Jovanka Houska » Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:43 pm

I am not going to argue about our choice of the word "at" because it is now perfectly clear what we meant. Suffice to say I can most certainly confirm that no coaching will be taking place at the venue. The organisers have said no and we respect their wishes. There should be no further discussion on that point.
However, I do take offence that we in your own words have given the impression of "riding roughshod over established practices, as well as piggy-backing on the tournament in trying to promote their own private scheme as being connected to the Championships themselves". This is very harsch when Sabrina and myself have tried to do things with the utmost consideration to everyone. The organisers were informed of our plans and we were given permission to conduct private coaching, the only mistake we committed as has been stated earlier in the thread was the one ill-advised sentence but all this has now been corrected.
I don't particularly like posting things on the forum but I can say Alan, I look forward to meeting you at the British Championships and listening to your viewpoint and constructive ideas how to move chess forward.
Jovanka

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