British Championships Chess Coaching

National developments, strategies and ideas.
LozCooper

Re: British Championships Chess Coaching

Post by LozCooper » Sat Jul 16, 2011 6:59 pm

Alan Burke wrote:Loz Cooper - just what is it about you that you try and pick on something to disagree or argue about ? You previously asked for me to praise Sabrina, which I did so, yet no mention is made of that !

I try and be postive and you just want to cause further disagreement ...... and I see you have still failed to expand on your answer to my original question regarding the £600 - or is that because you can't give one ?
Could it be the personal attack you made on her and me in your last post? Do you ever stop and think how hurtful some of your posts are? Do you care about people's feelings? I don't know you personally so I'm trying to make a balanced judgement on if you're saying these things tongue in cheek to spice up the thread if they are meant as vindictively as they come across.

If that is you being positive I would hate to encounter you when you are being unpleasant.

Regarding your last point, I prefer not to speculate on things when I'm not aware of the full facts, if you are going to keep bombarding me until I hazard I guess then I would say that it may be that because of some of the negative feedback received on the forum she feels more comfortable booking a meeting room elsewhere for her coaching.

Alan Burke

Re: British Championships Chess Coaching

Post by Alan Burke » Sat Jul 16, 2011 7:59 pm

Loz Cooper ... Do you consider this 'personal attack' on Sabrina also included the piece when I said "I really do appreciate the hard work she obviously puts into chess" ... or is it more convenient for your cause to just ignore that comment and not include any reference to it in your later posts ?

Regarding you not wanting to answer the question about the £600 because you don't know all the facts, why then did you even bother to try and give an answer when I first asked the question ? If you had not intervened I would not have asked you to expand on that answer.

You say in your last post ... "I prefer not to speculate on things when I'm not aware of the full facts ..." yet in your earlier post you stated "The original plan was to coach at people's accommodation and maybe hire a meeting room for one or two group sessions. She now feels obliged to hire a meeting room for all of her coaching to avoid any further accusations." If that is you not knowing the full facts, it certainly appears to be a confident assessment of something you say you could only speculate about !

I was trying to find some common ground about this situation but it seems you only want to continue a dispute.

However, once more, I will say that it seems that no matter how positive I try to be, you just want to search out any little phrase to try and prolong an argument.

Mike Truran
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Re: British Championships Chess Coaching

Post by Mike Truran » Sat Jul 16, 2011 8:07 pm

Alan, how is it that every single thread you get involved in degenerates without fail into point scoring and endless arguments about trivia? Do you think it may not be entirely coincidental?

If you're so bloody concerned about the £600, why don't you do us all a favour and take it off line via PMs?

Alan Burke

Re: British Championships Chess Coaching

Post by Alan Burke » Sat Jul 16, 2011 8:14 pm

Mike Truran .... a statement was made regarding the ''nit-pickers'' being the cause of £600 having to be paid out for the hire of a meeting room for Sabrina's coaching - so, just what is wrong in asking how that assessment of the situation was made ?

Should you not be asking why nobody yet seems to want to back up that statement with facts ?

Mike Truran
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Re: British Championships Chess Coaching

Post by Mike Truran » Sat Jul 16, 2011 8:53 pm

Alan Burke.... (PS another of your highly annoying habits is to give people's full names at the start of your posts - and no doubt you will start another argument about how unfair people are to you when they draw attention to that particular affectation):

1. Re your question - I guess I just don't care enough.

2. As far as I can ascertain you have contributed precisely nothing towards organising chess in England - so what gives you the right to spend your time criticising other people's efforts, justifying your own injured amour propre and creating endless arguments about trivia? I was tempted to say that if you spent half the time on volunteering that you spend on endless tendentious and prolix posts English chess would be in a better place - but on reflection I suspect that if you had any actual influence in English chess it would finish up as a smoking ruin.

Nick Thomas
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Re: British Championships Chess Coaching

Post by Nick Thomas » Sat Jul 16, 2011 9:00 pm

ECF Coaches
2. Coaches

(a) The Board shall be responsible on the recommendation of the Director of Junior Chess & Education for the appointment of the ECF Accredited Coaches (collectively or individually referred to as “the Coach(es)”).

(b) No Coach shall be appointed to his or her post unless the Board is satisfied that he or she has previously conducted himself or herself in a manner befitting such appointment and also he or she satisfies all of the following pre-conditions:
(i) Membership of ECF; and
(ii) Possession of Enhanced CRB Disclosure* at the time of appointment; and
(iii) The provision of the name of two referees and the receipt of satisfactory references from those referees; and
(iv) Fulfilment of the qualifications to become a Coach current at the time of appointment.

(c) All such appointments of the Coaches shall be for a period of three years and may be renewed for successive periods of three years provided that the pre-conditions set out in 2(b) above are satisfied at the time of each such re-appointment.
I've read quite a lot of this thread but not all. I'm aware that this had been quoted before but I thought it worth considering what the above means and how it is implemented.
No Coach shall be appointed to his or her post unless the Board is satisfied that he or she has previously conducted himself or herself in a manner befitting such appointment
Fairly meaningless in practice if not misleading unless it can be argued that ignorance is sufficient evidence of satisfaction.
(i) Membership of ECF
Fair enough. I would guess that most or all on the list comply with this. Not relevant to the quality of the players ability to coach though.
(ii) Possession of Enhanced CRB Disclosure* at the time of appointment
Again I would guess that most or all on the list comply with this. A fairly minimum standard is being employed here though as I think that third party CRB's are being accepted and are considered valid for several years. I don't believe they need to be presented to a member of the ECF personally either but can be sent in the post. It should be remembered that the CRB is not a guarantee of an individuals past good behaviour but is simply a check on whether previous criminal behaviour has been recorded. This is a very low minimum but in no way sufficient starting point which should lead to other checks by parents.
(iii) The provision of the name of two referees and the receipt of satisfactory references from those referees
I believe that the ECF deem it sufficient to receive 2 references by the applicant but do not routinely or ever contact the referees to check on the accuracy of the documents received. I have provided a handful of references for prospective coaches to the ECF and don't remember being contacted by them to confirm their validity. I don't infer any blame on the ECF (if I have understood the situation correctly) for this given their limited funds.
(iv) Fulfillment of the qualifications to become a Coach current at the time of appointment
I don't believe there are any.

I mention all this to invite comment/correction and also to point out to certain posters that inclusion on the ECF coaching list , while vaguely desirable, is by no means all that it might seem to an unsuspecting parent, school or club.

Michele Clack
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Re: British Championships Chess Coaching

Post by Michele Clack » Sat Jul 16, 2011 9:20 pm

Coming in half way through this post it read that no coaches could conduct post match analysis in the tournament analysis room with their pupils. Andrew Farthing has made it plain that this is not the case. I suspect that Sabrina and her team originally intended to use the analysis room like everyone else to go through games just played and hire rooms for preparation. It sounds like she is so upset that she is hiring rooms for all work and the £600 is for room hire above what she originally intended. If that is indeed the case it is a real shame.

Alan Burke

Re: British Championships Chess Coaching

Post by Alan Burke » Sat Jul 16, 2011 9:35 pm

Mike Truran ... YOU and nobody else has said it is annoying to put somebody's name at the beginning of a post so where do you get the phase from of "you will start another argument about how unfair people are to you when they draw attention to that particular affectation" (ie just where are these "people" ?) If a name is not put at the begining of a post, just how do you suggest that someone else knows who the subsequent comment is directed at ?

My involvement with chess on this situation matters not one bit as the statment was actually nothing to do with the game itself but refered to a situation which could have occured for any social gathering.

Michele ... Actually Sabrina's comment earlier in this thread clearly stated that she was originally going to conduct her sessions in either the accomodation of the students; her own accomodation or a meeting room for which she had already made enquires about hiring. That itself was never any problem and I was just wondering how the "nit-pickers" caused her to now have a £600 bill if she was already thinking of hiring a meeting room and was never intending on using the facilities at the Championship venue ?

There may well be a good explanation how the "nit-pickers" caused Sabrina to have this extra expense but so far none has been posted.

Brendan O'Gorman
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Re: British Championships Chess Coaching

Post by Brendan O'Gorman » Sat Jul 16, 2011 10:14 pm

Forgive me for passing on this hoary advice, but some posters seem to be unaware of the existence of trolls. Wikipedia defines an internet troll as "... a person who, through wilful action, attempts to disrupt a community or garner attention and controversy through provocative messages." The main advice on dealing with trolls is to ignore them.

Alex Holowczak
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Re: British Championships Chess Coaching

Post by Alex Holowczak » Sat Jul 16, 2011 10:31 pm

Brendan O'Gorman wrote:The main advice on dealing with trolls is to ignore them.
Or indeed on this forum, foe them, so you don't read their posts by default. :idea:

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Peter Brace
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Re: British Championships Chess Coaching

Post by Peter Brace » Sat Jul 16, 2011 10:32 pm

Don't feed the troll!

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Adam Raoof
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Re: British Championships Chess Coaching

Post by Adam Raoof » Sat Jul 16, 2011 10:36 pm

CJ tells me he is doing an interview about the British Championships at 10.45pm (in ten minutes) tonight on Talk Sport.

http://www.talksport.co.uk/radio/drivet ... hess-sport

Paul Cooksey

Re: British Championships Chess Coaching

Post by Paul Cooksey » Sat Jul 16, 2011 10:39 pm

Adam Raoof wrote:CJ tells me he is doing an interview about the British Championships at 10.45pm (in ten minutes) tonight on Talk Sport.

http://www.talksport.co.uk/radio/drivet ... hess-sport
Let's hope he does not focus on the issues discussed in this thread :)

David Sedgwick
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Re: British Championships Chess Coaching

Post by David Sedgwick » Sat Jul 16, 2011 10:45 pm

Mike Truran wrote:Alan Burke.... (PS another of your highly annoying habits is to give people's full names at the start of your posts - and no doubt you will start another argument about how unfair people are to you when they draw attention to that particular affectation)
Alan Burke wrote:Mike Truran ... YOU and nobody else has said it is annoying to put somebody's name at the beginning of a post so where do you get the phase from of "you will start another argument about how unfair people are to you when they draw attention to that particular affectation" (ie just where are these "people" ?) If a name is not put at the begining of a post, just how do you suggest that someone else knows who the subsequent comment is directed at ?
Spot on, Mike!! :lol:

Sean Hewitt

Re: British Championships Chess Coaching

Post by Sean Hewitt » Sat Jul 16, 2011 10:56 pm

The troll has become the first addition to my foe list!

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