Junior Chess Clubs

[Richard James]

My instinct is that if we can persuade every junior tournament to provide an ECF performance grade for the event, and submit results to contribute to a rating on an ECF list that encompasses a wide range of junior-only events, then that will provide a great deal of encouragement to kids who might normally drop out of competitive chess.

That certainly works in Surrey - the secondary school league has over 300 active players many of whom I know are interested in their own, and their opponents', grading. Coulsdon CF run lots of junior competitions and has over 400 juniors with a grading.

This is fine for secondary school competitions but I think it's not such a good idea for lower level primary school competitions. I really don't very much like what Coulsdon do with regard to grading their players.

Most kids in lower level primary school competitions are very weak, and often barely know the moves. What used to happen was that they got grades which were much too high and, when they started playing in adult competitions, lost lots of grading points. I guess it might not happen to the same extent after the grading adjustments a few years ago, but I still think you shouldn't be assigning grades to kids who are below the weakest adult club strength. You're potentially damaging the integrity of the grading system (the Bloodgood effect if you like) if you include competitions in which most or all the players are previously ungraded. In addition, I don't think you're doing kids any favours in the long term by pretending they're serious players when they're not. If you want to encourage them by giving them a grade you can run your own internal grading list, as we did at Richmond for many years.

Our evidence from 15-20 years ago was that kids who played mostly in junior tournaments were overgraded compared to those who played mostly in adult tournaments. It always seemed to me that a player with a grade of 100 from the Surrey Schools League was quite a bit weaker than a Thames Valley League player with the same grade. Richmond juniors with rapidplay grades of about 75 from Richmond Rapidplays would usually beat players from, say, Barnet with similar grades obtained from junior events. I suspect, but may be wrong, that this effect would not now be so pronounced.

[John Kendell]

Lots of interesting points being raised. As a newbie to this forum I suspect much of what has been contributed has previously been discussed. Is it true to say then that chess opportunities at primary age is geographically patchy? There certainly seem to be some excellent areas (Nottingham) for example. Although even there the secondary drop off is alarming. Clearly there needs to be multiple schools playing in any 1 local area for momentum to be maintained. I suspect it's vey easy for chess organising to stop very quickly when the few teachers / parents / club members involved stop (for whatever reason). Restarting local leagues seems almost impossible if relying on well meaning individuals.

I noticed that Neill was the ECF assistant manager for secondary education chess. Is there an ECF primary school equivalent? And what is their remit? Are counties actively encouraged to maintain junior leagues or are things so desperate that we are too far gone?

[Neill Cooper]

I noticed that Neill was the ECF assistant manager for secondary education chess. Is there an ECF primary school equivalent? And what is their remit? Are counties actively encouraged to maintain junior leagues or are things so desperate that we are too far gone?

This is a very new development, by Phil Ehr since he became junior director last autumn. Remits are not yet defined! Angela Eyton is Assistant Manager for Primary Schools (South) whilst there is a vacancy for Assistant Manager for Primary Schools (North). See http://www.englishchess.org.uk/?page_id=79#junior.

I am first trying to find out which counties have secondary school matches. In various places secondary schools play in the local leagues as there are no other chess playing schools in their area.

[Alan Burke]

At tonight's weekly 3Cs' (Oldham) club night there were 54 players aged under 17 (and that was with some others not being there due to already having played for the club's various teams earlier in the week - a few weeks ago the attendance of young players totalled 71.)

OK, some of these may eventually leave the game - all kids try out different pastimes before deciding on those they prefer - but if clubs don't bother to try and recruit them in the first place, they can't then complain at the lack of up-and-coming players in their ranks for the future.

Rather than focus on getting youngsters a grade, would it not be better to firstly just get them interested in chess and let them enjoy it without worrying too much about getting fast-tracked to success ?

As Alan Walton stated earlier in this thread, 3Cs don't just rely on teachers trying to coach the game in local schools but have experienced players volunteering their services so as to give quality coaching to the children. From there, any players with potential are then invited along to 3Cs where they can be given more structured coaching according to their ability - tonight there were three coaching groups at the club depending upon ability.

However, does this system eventually produce enough players of a decent standard in the future ? Well, currently there are 11 players at 3Cs of grade 170 or above who have all 'come through the ranks' after joining the club as youngsters - and the International honours board at the club also gives an indication at its ongoing success during the past 34 years.

If chess clubs want to attract more youngsters, they must be prepared to 'do it for themselves' and not just wonder where the next generation of players are going to come from.

[Mike Truran]

Alan, I don't always agree with you as you know, but I think you've got it spot on with your last post. Well done to you and your colleagues at 3Cs on the fine work you're doing with junior chess.

[John Kendell]

Neill - thanks for the heads up. I've mailed Phil. If I can't be bothered to volunteer then little point whingeing! I'm not really northern based geographically (except by UK Chess Challenge boundaries) but who knows.

The Oldham 3Cs model is what David Levens is proposing nationally is it not? Seems a very clear way forward provided the chess players to visit schools can be found.

[Peter D Williams]

Peter/Neill

I think the split is probably more selective/non-selective than independent/state (although in much of the country this is very much the same thing).

But you also need enthusiasm from the staff. I was speaking the other day to the father of a boy who played for the Wey Valley U11 team last year and is now, along with several of his teammates, at a local boys' grammar school. They are very disappointed that the school does not have a proper chess club and that they don't play in the Surrey Schools League. They've tried speaking to the Head but to no avail. You'll know which school I mean, Neill, so maybe a word from you next time you're in contact with them might help.

I agree Richard. A lot of schools do not have a proper chess club and often its of no use talking to the head. It is very much pot luck to me as to whether your child will have a chance to play chess in a school.
Also I guess teachers are so busy with other projects that chess would come very low down on the list.

[Mick Norris]

SNIP If I can't be bothered to volunteer then little point whingeing! SNIP

If only that was a normal response

[Alex Holowczak]

SNIP If I can't be bothered to volunteer then little point whingeing! SNIP

If only that was a normal response

Hear, hear!

[Scott Crowther]

Neill - thanks for the heads up. I've mailed Phil. If I can't be bothered to volunteer then little point whingeing! I'm not really northern based geographically (except by UK Chess Challenge boundaries) but who knows.

The Oldham 3Cs model is what David Levens is proposing nationally is it not? Seems a very clear way forward provided the chess players to visit schools can be found.

Hi John,

I am in Coventry and in a similar position trying to find a kids/school chess club in the City for my enthusiastic 6 year old.
Just wondered if you found a solution somewhere?
I have been in touch with the local chess club/league, but suspect there are no kids clubs outside schools, and they are all private schools as you noted.

Thanks, scott

[Neill Cooper]

Scott

Whilst the map of junior chess clubs at http://englishchess.org.uk/Juniors/team ... -club-map/ doesn't show much in Coventry, there is a good junior club in Solihull called 'Solihull Checkmate' (see http://www.mccu.org.uk/junior/jlinks.htm). Not much info on the web about it but the person to contact is Alex Holowczak who regularly posts on this forum.

[David Shepherd]

Scott - One idea is to go to the uk chess challenge website and look and see what schools/clubs the winners in your area go to, but agree Alex will know.

[Neill Cooper]

Scott - One idea is to go to the uk chess challenge website and look and see what schools/clubs the winners in your area go to, but agree Alex will know.

Scott, I must admit, that is exactly what I did! http://www.ukchesschallenge.com/MFResul ... resses.pdf

[Alex Holowczak]

There's a far closer option: A junior club in Rugby. I'll PM Scott with more details.

[David Blower]

The thing is the chess club I go to, is a relatively small chess club, and the 2nd highest graded player at the club is "only" 129! Is that really high enough to give some "quality" coaching? We have only one junior at the club, he has the familiar problem I would have thought of being too good for everyone at his school, but not being as good as the experienced adult members of the chess club. Thats not to say that juniors are not welcome at Brewood Chess Club, because they certainly are, and fwiw some adult members have "coached" him, (myself included) (basic checkmates, queen and king, rook and king, 2 bishops and King, bishop, knight and King, and pawn and King) plus hes learnt notation. Hes also got familar with some openings that he feals more "comfortable" with to use in tournaments (not that I'm about to give away his favourite opening on here!)

I however try not to lose sight of the fact that it should be about enjoyment (hence why we got him to learn some of the basic checkmates) during friendlies hes allowed takeback moves if he makes an obvious blunder to see what alternative moves he could do instead. He does know about the opening development moves, castling early, so his knowledge base is higher than mine was at the same age.

My point is though we're not really experienced or proper coaches! Just adults who enjoy chess, although I myself enjoy "coaching" him (if coaching is the right word to use in this case!)

That said he was quite chuffed to have won his first ever graded match last night against another club!