Southern Giga Final

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John Upham
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Southern Giga Final

Post by John Upham » Sat Jul 14, 2012 10:55 pm

Images from the Southern Giga Final may be found at

http://johnupham.smugmug.com/

Select "Southern Giga Final"

Any IDs of unnamed players would be most appreciated!
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John Upham
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Re: Southern Giga Final

Post by John Upham » Mon Jul 16, 2012 11:54 am

Images from the second day of the Southern Giga Final have been added to the gallery.

They may all be found at

http://johnupham.smugmug.com/

and select "Southern Giga Final" :D

As usual, I've not yet ID'd all of the players so pms with names will be most welcome!
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Mike Truran
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Re: Southern Giga Final

Post by Mike Truran » Mon Jul 16, 2012 12:05 pm

The usual high quality playing venue for children and facilities for parents we have come to expect of Basman's events. :lol:

Alan Burke

Re: Southern Giga Final

Post by Alan Burke » Mon Jul 16, 2012 12:21 pm

Without Mike Basman's initiative in providing the event there wouldn't be any such children playing in any such venues at all !!! Is it better to at least use those facilities or not to have the event taking place ?

So don't try and find fault with what there is; just be grateful that he is at least providing something that others have not - or alternatively do something positive and find a venue that you think is better.

Mike Truran
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Re: Southern Giga Final

Post by Mike Truran » Mon Jul 16, 2012 12:29 pm

I fear we will have to agree to disagree.

And I have done something positive and found better venues. It's called the Junior 4NCL.

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David Shepherd
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Re: Southern Giga Final

Post by David Shepherd » Mon Jul 16, 2012 12:32 pm

I thought the venue was good given the number of players. How many players in the junior 4NCL compared to this event?

Alan Burke

Re: Southern Giga Final

Post by Alan Burke » Mon Jul 16, 2012 12:35 pm

And how many players who play in the 4NCL would not have even been involved in the game if they had not first been introduced to competitive chess thanks to the efforts of one M.Basman ? I could at least name several from my own local club. So you should be even more grateful to him.
Last edited by Alan Burke on Mon Jul 16, 2012 12:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Mike Truran
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Re: Southern Giga Final

Post by Mike Truran » Mon Jul 16, 2012 12:36 pm

If you thought the venue was good, that is entirely your prerogative. And maybe the photos gave a distorting impression. But it may be that different people have different expectations.

I don't believe that playing the numbers game is particularly relevant. If packing large numbers of kids into overcrowded sports halls like battery hens was a key criterion of success, we should be world leaders at junior level.

Andrew Varney
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Re: Southern Giga Final

Post by Andrew Varney » Mon Jul 16, 2012 12:51 pm

Mike,

As you know, I am very much a supporter of the J4NCL. However, I am also a strong supporter of the UKCC.
If you tried to cater for the numbers and diversity that the UKCC does within the J4NCL model, the fiasco in Oxford in the 2010 season would look tame in comparison. I'm a supporter of junior chess from the beginner level upwards, and the UKCC does a fantastic job of encouraging chess at every level within that, spurring the children on to the next stage. There are some idiosyncracies and imperfections in that, and I know that in the older age groups you've experienced a bit of that yourself, but we should not throw the baby out with the bath water.

I think that the numbers were possibly up a little this year, and the weather meant that the conditions for parents especially were not as good, but overall the venue is actually pretty good for what it has to cater for.

Mike Truran
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Re: Southern Giga Final

Post by Mike Truran » Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:17 pm

Andrew

You may (or may not) be right. It might be interesting though to debate just what the purpose of the UKCC is (see also my final paragraph below). As we've seen on another thread, the fall-out rate among juniors is horrendous, so I question the value of hurling large numbers at a wall and hoping some of them stick.

Re the quality of the venue, as I said earlier no doubt different people have different expectations. If the photos are anything like accurate, I would hate to think what a poor venue would look like if that was a good one.

Finally (and no doubt I will have people shouting me down again), Basman's principal objective is to make a profit for himself out of the UKCC. Absolutely nothing wrong in that, but there may at least exist the possibility (as my son has found to my cost) that when the profit motive on the one hand and quality of venues/quality of organisation etc on the other hand are in conflict, the former will usually come out on top.

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David Shepherd
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Re: Southern Giga Final

Post by David Shepherd » Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:28 pm

Mike Truran wrote:I don't believe that playing the numbers game is particularly relevant.
The venue needs to be suitable for the numbers or the people playing. I have played in the 4NCL, e2-e4 venues etc all of which are excellent. However such venues are unsuited to the numbers of children in this event, given the numbers this venue is not bad.

Alan Burke

Re: Southern Giga Final

Post by Alan Burke » Mon Jul 16, 2012 9:05 pm

Mike Truran says ... "I have done something positive and found better venues. It's called the Junior 4NCL" and also "I don't believe that playing the numbers game is particularly relevant."

However, his replies do not answer my challenge to find better venue than Mike Basman for the Southern Gigafinals.

The 'numbers game' certainly is relevant in that respect - I could easily find a great venue for a competition involving two players, but certainly would struggle to provide a site for all those involved in the Gigafinals (and remember the venue will be required for two consecutive days).

Similarly, Mike Truran's Junior 4NCL tournaments attract a meagre of entrants compared to the UKCC and so it would be easier to find suitable venues. Therefore, I again ask Mike Truran if he could find any alternative location for the vast numbers of youngsters playing at the Gigafinals ?

Regarding the purpose of the UKCC, I don't care if Mike Basman (and please note I respectfully use his full name in my posts rather than just a seemingly antagonistic reference to only his surname) makes millions out of the event as long as he is providing chess for many children who would otherwise not have even thought about playing the game. I know of many, many youngsters whose first connection with chess was because of their school entering the UKCC and who otherwise would not have become involved. Yes, many of them eventually drop out of the game, but that is not unique to chess, it happens in most pastimes that youngsters become involved with - they dabble in various sports/hobbies before finding the one that they enjoy more than the rest. Is it preferable to have these kids playing for just a few years with the chance of some of them advancing in the game or not have them there at all ?

If anyone is not happy with the conditions provided or any profit that they believe the organisers are making then they can vote with their feet - so I expect those who are not happy will not be entering their youngsters in future years ?

Alan Burke

Re: Southern Giga Final

Post by Alan Burke » Mon Jul 16, 2012 9:12 pm

Just another point - Mike Truran also says "And maybe the photos gave a distorting impression", so is the complaint made purely on the photographic evidence or from personally being in attendance at the event ?

Mike Truran
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Re: Southern Giga Final

Post by Mike Truran » Mon Jul 16, 2012 9:43 pm

I am quite at liberty to criticise a venue without having to find a better one. And yes, the observation (not a complaint) was made on the evidence of the photographs.

You may not care how much money Basman makes out of the event, the quality of the venues, the quality of the organisation or whatever other feature of the UKCC you care to choose. That is your prerogative. Please allow others the same privilege of having an opinion, even if it is different from yours.

Simon Brown
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Re: Southern Giga Final

Post by Simon Brown » Mon Jul 16, 2012 10:02 pm

Completely agree with Mike on everything. And not just this thread.

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