Southern Giga Final

National developments, strategies and ideas.
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David Shepherd
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Re: Southern Giga Final

Post by David Shepherd » Mon Jul 16, 2012 10:10 pm

Just to avoid and doubt my views above are based on having been at the venue which has now been used for two years in a row. There was a similar thread also last year discussing the venue and I think the general conclusion from memory was that it was ok.

Mike Truran
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Re: Southern Giga Final

Post by Mike Truran » Mon Jul 16, 2012 10:43 pm

David

I have no reason to doubt you - and thank you for not trying to shout me down. My comments were based on my perception, and I'm very happy (unlike some) to accept that people are entitled to different opinions.

I think I am more interested in questions like the following:

1. What is the main purpose of the UKCC? Is it to provide Mike Basman with a profit stream, or is it to encourage junior chess? In asking the question, I am NOT saying that those two objectives are necessarily incompatible, but I am suggesting that that there is a possibility at least that when the chips are down the profit motive is going to come out on top.
2. If getting large numbers of children introduced to chess is 'a good thing', why is it that we have fallen so far behind other countries in the standard of our junior chess?
3. Do good venues and good organisation matter, or is it more important to get large numbers of juniors playing? Again, I am NOT saying that the two objectives are necessarily incompatible; I am just suggesting that maybe with large numbers involved delivering good venues and good organisation may be more difficult But even if that isn't achieved, does it matter? Or should we be trying to set junior expectations about good quality playing conditions early on in their chessplaying careers?
4. Is a regular diet of juniors playing other juniors at fast time controls good for their chess anyway?

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: Southern Giga Final

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Mon Jul 16, 2012 10:53 pm

Playing devil's advocate, could the same questions be asked of the Junior 4NCL and other junior competitions in general? (Maybe a new thread could be started to discuss all junior competitions?)

Mike Truran
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Re: Southern Giga Final

Post by Mike Truran » Mon Jul 16, 2012 11:02 pm

Of course they could. But at least we try to provide decent venues (having hopefully learnt from the 2010 Oxford debacle which Andrew correctly alluded to) and time controls that are suited to the level of play. And we're not particularly interested in getting large numbers through the door - we are much more interested in developing our professional coaching proposition, which is by no means perfect, but is hopefully getting there.

Finally, we are always happy to listen to, and hopefully respond to, constructive comments - which was absolutely not what I experienced when I tried to engage Mike Basman in a discussion about the standard of the control team at one of his events. But that's been dealt with in another thread.

But of course you're right. The question about the purpose and objectives of the UKCC could be extended to most other junior events. The elephant in the room will always be why, with so much junior chess activity in this country, we lag so far behind many other countries.

Alan Burke

Re: Southern Giga Final

Post by Alan Burke » Mon Jul 16, 2012 11:20 pm

No you don't have to find a better venue, but in your original answer you said that you had done so.

However the events you mentioned do not attract the numbers present at the UKCC, so I was therefore just pointing out that your attempted answer did not fulfill the criteria of the event in discussion. Would you therefore still maintain that the venues you have provided are better than the ones used in the Southern Gigafinal and could be used for that purpose ?

Yes, my opinion might be different to the one you have but please indicate when I have not allowed you to have yours.

Mike Truran
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Re: Southern Giga Final

Post by Mike Truran » Mon Jul 16, 2012 11:32 pm

Your unique combination of smallmindedness and obtuseness is quite astounding. I'm trying to raise some serious questions about the future of English chess and you seem obsessed with banging on about whether or not I could find a better venue for some random event I had the temerity to comment on.

I'm not going to waste any more of my time responding to your stupid posts.

Mike Truran
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Re: Southern Giga Final

Post by Mike Truran » Mon Jul 16, 2012 11:41 pm

PS Have now also blacklisted you - so as well as not having to waste my time responding to your posts, I won't have to waste my time reading them either.

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David Shepherd
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Re: Southern Giga Final

Post by David Shepherd » Mon Jul 16, 2012 11:46 pm

I think the UK chess challenge is far from perfect, with so many players it will never be. It has its quirks and each year there are things that could be done better. But to some extent it is what it is - a hugely successful event which gets very large numbers of children playing competitive chess. If you exclude the finals which are a totally different set up and the qualifying events which are run by schools or clubs, then what the event is at most is a two day competition for each competitor, the equivalent of a weekend congress (spread over two weekends for those that qualify). As such the impact on a childs chess development will not be so large other than as introduction to competitive chess.

It is the county junior organisations which most influence the junior chess (and most of them will be the ones running the magafinals). My view is that the main benefit of the UK chess challenge is it introduces many players to the county junior organisations at a young age via their local megafinal. The development at the moment is then mainly via the individual counties.

Alan Burke

Re: Southern Giga Final

Post by Alan Burke » Tue Jul 17, 2012 12:10 am

So having given an answer to a question, which is then challenged because you didn't actually address the point at hand, you then say you don't want to answer the question (so why bother in the first place ?) and now throw insults at someone because you have obviously been backed into a corner and can't just admit you might have to review your original statement. Obviously changing the subject is always a good way of trying to avoid answering the actual issue.

You say you were trying to raise some serious matters about the future of chess in this country, yet all you did in your original post was to criti ... oops make an observation (along with a laughing smiley) about a venue you had not even visited during the event.

I also note you fail to answer my question regarding your previous post about me not allowing your point of view - I can therefore only think that you are well aware that your comment was totally wrong and think that silence is the better option than admitting your error.

It does seem however than with both myself on this thread and with Mike Basman in your discussion with him, you want people to either agree with your point of view or you don't want to listen to them at all.

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David Shepherd
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Re: Southern Giga Final

Post by David Shepherd » Tue Jul 17, 2012 12:11 am

As constructive critisism to Mike, I think it would have been better not to have posted your comments in the way you did. I think it would have been much better to have made a posting along the lines of:

It is great to see so many children competing at the Southern Gigafinal and good luck to those who have qualified for the next stage. For any parents reading this who may not be aware of other opporunities there are to compete on the National Stage I would like to introduce you to the junior 4NCL. This competition has excellent venues etc.....

If you wanted to discuss the development of junior chess then you could do so in another thread. I think it is now time to be positive about junior chess and concentrate on the positives aspects such as both the UK Chess Challenge and the Junior 4NCL.

Just my opinion ....

Alan Burke

Re: Southern Giga Final

Post by Alan Burke » Tue Jul 17, 2012 12:13 am

Having just read Mike Truran's latest comment it seems to confirm the view in the last paragraph of my own post above.

I may be wrong on this, but his continued reference to Mike Basnan by surname only does seem to indicate some personal antagonism against him and could be the reason for his seemingly opposition to the UKCC.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Southern Giga Final

Post by Roger de Coverly » Tue Jul 17, 2012 12:42 am

Alan Burke wrote: I may be wrong on this, but his continued reference to Mike Basnan by surname only does seem to indicate some personal antagonism against him and could be the reason for his seemingly opposition to the UKCC.
Organisers are to an extent competing against one another for entrants to their competitions, so there is a natural rivalry. The organiser of the UKCC doesn't play in the 4NCL, so doesn't share with us his disquiet, should it exist, with some of the 4NCL rules. By contrast, the 4NCL organiser took part, indirectly as a parent, in the UKCC and found it wanting in some respects.

Alan Burke

Re: Southern Giga Final

Post by Alan Burke » Tue Jul 17, 2012 1:21 am

Roger, I totally agree with your observation. However, it does seem that the original post by Mike Truran was a little more than just natural rivalry (ie the laughing smiley). It appeared that although both the UKCC and the Junior 4NCL are aiming to advance the cause of youth chess in this country, one of the organisers was clearly trying to discredit the other and had no respect for the efforts he had put into organising those tournaments.

Yes, we can all find fault, but it did seem that Mike Truran's comments were more than just an attempt to provide constructive criticism so as to advance the cause of the UKCC.

In my own opinion, I feel that over the past years the UKCC has provided a first interest in chess for hundreds, if not thousands of children - many of whom are now playing in the Junior 4NCL - and who probably today would not have even known an opening move if Mike Basman had not instigated his event.

Regarding Mike Truran's comments on the playing conditions for the Gigafinal; yes, Manchester United play on a lush green, well-mown surface at Old Trafford, but those just starting their football career have to contend with conditions on the local park which are far from ideal.

sarahmccarty
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Re: Southern Giga Final

Post by sarahmccarty » Tue Jul 17, 2012 6:54 am

I thought Mike Basman did a wonderful job with organising the event! Our school entered the UKCC after only just starting the club this year! We have over 40 children involved now and the teacher has said it is primarily because the kids were talking to other children about how "cool" it is to make it to the mega and giga. It got children excited about chess that would otherwise not have any interest. I think Mike Basman deserves every £ he has made on the event as it is a massive amount of work for months leading up to the finals weekends, as well as the weekends itself, and it certainly encouraged junior chess! Smart business man! The halls were a bit cramped at the giga, but the children inside had plenty of playing space without it feeling overcrowded. Well done Mike and thank you for organising!

Sean Hewitt
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Re: Southern Giga Final

Post by Sean Hewitt » Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:54 am

Alan Burke wrote:No you don't have to find a better venue, but in your original answer you said that you had done so.

However the events you mentioned do not attract the numbers present at the UKCC, so I was therefore just pointing out that your attempted answer did not fulfill the criteria of the event in discussion. Would you therefore still maintain that the venues you have provided are better than the ones used in the Southern Gigafinal and could be used for that purpose ?
How many players played at the Southern Gigafinal?

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