Glorney Cup Round 1

National developments, strategies and ideas.
Matthew Turner
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Re: Glorney Cup Round 1

Post by Matthew Turner » Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:13 pm

Some clarification may be required on the result on the Scotland - Ireland board 3 game. The 'final' position has Ireland an exchange up but the result is a win for Scotland.

ThomasThorpe
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Re: Glorney Cup Round 1

Post by ThomasThorpe » Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:18 pm

Matthew Turner wrote:Some clarification may be required on the result on the Scotland - Ireland board 3 game. The 'final' position has Ireland an exchange up but the result is a win for Scotland.
I think your screen must've frozen. There was a huge time scramble where white went from being 2 pawns up to allowing black to promote, and eventually white lost on time with black a queen up with a huge 7 seconds remaining.

Andrew Camp
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Re: Glorney Cup Round 1

Post by Andrew Camp » Fri Jul 20, 2012 5:41 pm

Wales win the Robinson Cup!!!

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
Chairman of North Wales Junior Chess Association
northwaleschess@aol.com

ThomasThorpe
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Re: Glorney Cup Round 1

Post by ThomasThorpe » Fri Jul 20, 2012 6:24 pm

Andrew Camp wrote:Wales win the Robinson Cup!!!

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
And second in the glorney!!! Wales clearly stronger this year in Glorney (probs because I wasn't in the team :lol: !!!)

Well done on england winning glorney, Gilbert and stokes

Carol Williams
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Re: Glorney Cup Round 1

Post by Carol Williams » Fri Jul 20, 2012 7:00 pm

Congratulations to all

LawrenceCooper
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Re: Glorney Cup Round 1

Post by LawrenceCooper » Fri Jul 20, 2012 9:48 pm

Final scores:

Glorney Cup (u18): 1 England 22 2 Wales 13 3= Scotland 12.5 3= Ireland 12.5
Jessica Gilbert Cup (girls u18): 1 England 11 2 Scotland 10 3 Ireland 8 4 Wales 7
John Robinson Cup (u14): 1 Wales 20 2 Scotland 19 3 England 17.5 4 Ireland 15.5
Bernadette Stokes Cup (u12): 1 England 27 2 Scotland 14 3 Wales 18 4 Ireland 13

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Peter D Williams
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Re: Glorney Cup Round 1

Post by Peter D Williams » Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:04 pm

LawrenceCooper wrote:Final scores:

Glorney Cup (u18): 1 England 22 2 Wales 13 3= Scotland 12.5 3= Ireland 12.5
Jessica Gilbert Cup (girls u18): 1 England 11 2 Scotland 10 3 Ireland 8 4 Wales 7
John Robinson Cup (u14): 1 Wales 20 2 Scotland 19 3 England 17.5 4 Ireland 15.5
Bernadette Stokes Cup (u12): 1 England 27 2 Scotland 14 3 Wales 18 4 Ireland 13
Thanks for this Lawrence - your input is as always much appreciated -if only there were more of you
when you are successful many losers bark at you.

LawrenceCooper
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Re: Glorney Cup Round 1

Post by LawrenceCooper » Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:05 pm

Peter D Williams wrote:
LawrenceCooper wrote:Final scores:

Glorney Cup (u18): 1 England 22 2 Wales 13 3= Scotland 12.5 3= Ireland 12.5
Jessica Gilbert Cup (girls u18): 1 England 11 2 Scotland 10 3 Ireland 8 4 Wales 7
John Robinson Cup (u14): 1 Wales 20 2 Scotland 19 3 England 17.5 4 Ireland 15.5
Bernadette Stokes Cup (u12): 1 England 27 2 Scotland 14 3 Wales 18 4 Ireland 13
Thanks for this Lawrence - your input is as always much appreciated -if only there were more of you
A scary thought :roll:

Angus McDonald
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Re: Glorney Cup Round 1

Post by Angus McDonald » Sat Jul 21, 2012 12:11 am

Jeez oh.

Matthew Turner thinks £13 for an evening meal is reasonable.

He then, allthough coaching the Scotland squad, draws reference to a game where my son was playing and that he was the exchange down and why is it showing as a Scotland win.

Well, firstly £13 a night for an evening meal for 4 nights which is what my son says he was being asked for is not reasonable. I'm still to get him home from Daventry mind you but that's what he told me on the phone on 2 occassions.

Then, Scotland are meant to be happy with an arrangement where the ECF benefit from the venue used with a 'cash back' offer from an hotel where youngsters arrived from Scotland after 13 hours of travel and were being asked to share a double bed.

I tell you what guys just keep on patting yourselves on the back why don't you.

Congratulations to England on their win in The Glorney. Well deserved I think. Also like to Congratulate the Welsh and Scottish under 14 teams for beating the Mighty England in their competition. Such a close contest in that under 14 tournament from all 4 countries suggests that the future of Chess in the British Isles might be bright.
Born in sleaford, Lincolnshire, Pro British from Scottish Ancestory all born in Scotland that stretches back as far as I can trace into the 1700s. Support England at Cricket and Scotland at football. Don't have any of the Wembley goalposts or turf in the back garden but wouldn't mind if I did!! :-)

Son brought into Chess by a project which introduced Chess into 'so called' deprived areas of Aberdeen.

Thankfully one organiser who has children is prepared to give a bit of a hand to a family who have spent £s thousands to support their children at Chess.

If you have any idea of how many organisers who don't have children are out there talking about our children like they are theirs!!!

Money well spent but when are the rest of you organisers going to cut the 'Chess parents' a break and think about all the expense of presenting our children to represent our country. Or is Chess just to be for the children of the wealthy???

HLang
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Re: Glorney Cup Round 1

Post by HLang » Sat Jul 21, 2012 12:41 am

Angus McDonald wrote:Matthew Turner thinks £13 for an evening meal is reasonable.
Matthew Turner wrote:3 courses of swanky nosh £13 for adults £6.50 for kids.
There was some confusion on the first night over what the organisers had agreed with the hotel. But - £6.50 for a 3 course meal. Or the fish and chip shop (500m away), the alternative food list (see link below) and the bar menu (much cheaper) were popular choices. `There was a Tesco next to the fish and chip shop too.

I also posted this link on the Scottish forum (which was then reposted by Mike here) but I guess it got lost in the long thread over there:
http://void.printf.net/~heth/Glorney_Fa ... dinner.jpg
Angus McDonald wrote:He then, although coaching the Scotland squad, draws reference to a game where my son was playing and that he was the exchange down and why is it showing as a Scotland win.
Matthew was in Daventry for rounds 1 and 2. The game being commented on took place in round 5. Presumably he was taking an active interest in the fortunes of the squad by watching the games online even though he couldn't be present, in the same way that he had played a significant role on the first day.
Angus McDonald wrote:youngsters arrived from Scotland after 13 hours of travel and were being asked to share a double bed.
I guess that Donald W's post on the Chess Scotland forum, about how the hotel sorted this out by providing extra beds that very evening, got lost in the long thread it appeared in. Nobody had to share a double bed.

Angus McDonald
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Re: Glorney Cup Round 1

Post by Angus McDonald » Sat Jul 21, 2012 1:24 am

Heather,

Post edited.

Too much said too soon.

A precedent was set at this event whereby some players were going to be paying double what others were paying for the 1st time.
Certainly the original plan was that over 16s would be paying £13 a night for the evening meal.

I'm not happy about that. Need to check with Ian when he gets home as to what actually happened. There are issues here Heather but you choose not to see them. After 14 hours travelling you don't want to be skulking round Daventry looking for food i.e. or indeed having to get your beds sorted. I'm the bad parent and the organisers are all brilliant. I will say the truth about all this in time but I will choose my words more carefully. I never said they had to share a double bed! I mean, who would allow that to happen? and what hotel would even think it was an option? Clearly a mistake.

Matthew managed to comment on that game. Did he not think Ian could have won it?
Why the need for clarification? After Thomas clarified the matter 'no comment'! not even
to thank Thomas. Or a comment on that being a good blitz finish.
Anyway, Ian lost 2 games under time trouble and it can be crushing so commiserations to the Irish lad.
I thought the standard of the games in the Glorney was really pretty high. Look at some of the top 2 board games!!

Enough. The organisers are all brilliant and always get it right and the food was brilliant, the bed they brought into the room late on the Tuesday night was soooo comfy and parents just need to have their cheque books on hand ready and waiting. (Sorted)

Matthew Turner
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Re: Glorney Cup Round 1

Post by Matthew Turner » Sat Jul 21, 2012 8:29 am

Angus,
Of course Ian could have won from the position that was display on my board (move 43). There were quite a lot of possibilities, the demo boards may have stopped working, Iain's opponent's phone might have gone off, Ian might have actually lost or drawn, but the kings could had been placed on the wrong squares to display the result. I didn't know which of these was the case and I know from years of experience that it is not a good idea to jump to conclusions.
Ian is obviously a very talented player and he has a lot of creativity. He had a number of time scrambles in Daventry, obviously the one against Wales worked out very well for him, but some didn't. Time scrambles make things a bit of a lottery. I think with Ian's (natural) ability he should want the result determined by the moves on the board and not the clock. I recall some advice I got as a youngster "The best way to avoid losing on time is to play quicker".

Sean Hewitt
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Re: Glorney Cup Round 1

Post by Sean Hewitt » Sat Jul 21, 2012 8:44 am

Angus McDonald wrote:Well, firstly £13 a night for an evening meal for 4 nights which is what my son says he was being asked for is not reasonable.
Angus. It might be helpful for future organisers to understand how much is reasonable for a 3 course meal in a 4 star hotel?

I take it that Scottish parents had to fund their child's participation privately? I believe other federations contribute towards travel and accommodation expenses for players representing their country.

Matthew Turner
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Re: Glorney Cup Round 1

Post by Matthew Turner » Sat Jul 21, 2012 8:58 am

If you look on the link Heather provided you will see that the hotel provided very cheap food, £2 for a sandwich, £2.50 for a jacket potato. It was basic, but it fair enough. I thought the evening meal at £13 was very good value and £6.50 for kids was frankly amazing. I wasn't clear who qualified for the £6.50 price and I think the organisers should have made this clearer. In my opinion there was a choice of food to suit everybody's taste and budget and I think the hotel went above and beyond.
The situation with beds, with initially? two youngsters being expected to share a double was not in my opinion acceptable. I think to use Daventry again you could probably only get two youngsters to a room. That leads to two questions 1. Would the increase in cost be acceptable? 2. Would there be the extra rooms?

Angus McDonald
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Re: Glorney Cup Round 1

Post by Angus McDonald » Sat Jul 21, 2012 9:33 am

Matthew,

Thank you for your comments! Your points about Ian and time are absolutely correct. I wish he'd listen to someone. It's a habit
and perhaps he just likes the adrenalin? Time scrambles are a lottery. They are all pretty good at it but it's not the purest form of Chess in my opinion. To really find the best team, and I don't doubt it was England this year, the time control with no additional and no increments should be looked at in my opinioin.

On the food situation. The initial situation was to be some of the team paying £6.50 and some paying £13. Never happened before that I'm aware of. Advice for team to eat together!

Sean, again thanks for asking!! I have a family of 4. I simply can't continue financing the talent of 1 to the detrement of the 3. Ian is receiving some help for the British which is appreciated. But! advice to eat together knowing these are the prices is unacceptable. That was advice from our side though. As soon as the bus had set off I started worrying that £70 was going to be enough. This was never answered satisfactorarily. Heather I guess was trying to help by saying there were other options but I don't think it's right that the over 16s should be off looking for other options whilst all the rest of the party are eating at £6.50 a head! Come on, you must be getting what I'm saying!! Not you Sean (Heather)

Sean, I have no problem with the costs for E2E4 events. You are catering for the whole Chess Market. Adults are earning. Parents can decide if their children go or not. We played Gatwick Jubilee Invitational. Really enjoyed the event and stayed at a travelodge nearby for £20/night. 3 of us. We walked back and fore to venue and made sandwiches and did McDonald's a few times.

The problem with International Junior Events is that you don't hear from the parents who have declined the invitation to their child to play for their country because of costs. They just drop out of Chess. It could be embarassing. Whereas I'm beyond shame. Anyway,
Do we wish to make Chess pruralistic? Do we want it to be played in all Schools rather than just the posh ones! :D If talent comes from poorer areas do we want them to be able to play for their country? If so let's talk about the arrangement for next year with all able to put forward their ideas with a broader outreach. There are i.e. some nice youth hostels in Scotland in some nice areas. Some can be booked ahead. Some may have the facilities necessary. Catering can be done by parents and chaperones. Catering Can be done by parents and chaperones and often is!

Finally Matthew, I don't know what you do but would you eat 4 evening meals in a row at £13/head I'm guessing you ate their once or twice?

and absolutely finally, I think £5/head for an evening meal would be ok. If it can't be done then it should be subsidised to get it to that figure so that all children from all backgrounds feel comfortable in the situation.

regards,

Angus

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